Re: Human Rights!!!!

I abhor any cruelty to animals of any kind, and I think it absolutely inexcuseable (unless they're socialist animals of course) .

However, I happen to be a bit of a carnivore as well, so until we solve that conundrum regarding equal rights then I think you're dead right, let's leave until then..

Re: Human Rights!!!!

I beg to differ from the bit of your post I have highlighted in bold Plantman - I think the exact opposite is true.
1985-1991 saw a huge increase in poverty for all groups (including children and o.a.p's) and this was during a Conservative Government.
From 1997-2009 (Labour Government) the figures have steadily decreased.
My source of information is the Child Poverty Action Group's "Poverty in the UK - A Summary of Facts and Figures". A graph within the document gives stats. from 1961 to 2009 and the most rapid increase in poverty of income was when we had a Conservative Government.
I believe the biggest reason for where we are today is because of the World Banks - their greed and indiscriminant high risk lending.

Re: Human Rights!!!!

Surprised Aerolor, that you haven't mentioned: (a) the abolition of Child Benefit, (b) the Government's declared ambition to eliminate Disability Living Allowance, (c) The continued attacks on those in receipt of Employment Support Allowance, forcing those who are sick and disabled into poorly paid employment, (d) whilst those at the top of the tree, e.g Bankers - are able to spend 'our' money on hugely risky schemes and are rewarded handsomely for doing so with massive bonus payments. (e) The revised payments and allowances in the House of Commons is now coming under attack from our so-called representatives, because those who previously lived a lavish life-style on these allowances are now screaming their heads off when these allowances are withdrawn.

Re: Human Rights!!!!

Whilst we diverse away from the topic.

Sorry Aerolor, Joe, you are both wrong. The only person to blame for the recession was Gordon Brown , no-one else. If he had not sold off our Gold reserves for peanuts we would not have felt the recession, that is why you always keep something aside for a rainy day.

Joe
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/01...lition-of.html

" the Government's declared ambition to eliminate Disability Living Allowance,"

Should'nt you have gone on to say that it will be replaced with a new benefit called " the Personal Independence Payment ".

Also

The continued attacks on those in receipt of Employment Support Allowance, forcing those who are sick and disabled into poorly paid employment, (d) whilst those at the top of the tree, e.g Bankers - are able to spend 'our' money on hugely risky schemes and are rewarded handsomely for doing so with massive bonus payments. (e) The revised payments and allowances in the House of Commons is now coming under attack from our so-called representatives, because those who previously lived a lavish life-style on these allowances are now screaming their heads off when these allowances are withdrawn.

I think you should have added that all party's are in this boat not just the Tories.

You see, comments made out of context to enforce a persons view point can be mis-leading for some people, and without ALL of the facts some claims look bad.

Labour say 10,000 police jobs will be lost because of the Coalition spending cuts yet fails to point out that 12,000 police jobs would be lost if Labour plans for spending cuts were followed.

Aerolor, each group who want to make a case against anything do so showing figures in their favour, it is obvious that they would not point out that the funds in their accounts went up ten fold due to the interest rate during the period that you quote.
I know two my investments returned over 900% and Over 800% leaving me fairly well placed financially. I love the Tories for that.

Show me figures where people claim poverty and I will show you figures showing they are not, 2 and 2 make 4!! does it?
It all depends on the little sign that is placed between the two 2's. +, -, /, *, the choice is yours to make it say what you want to.

Re: Human Rights!!!!

Thanks for that Aerolor, I'm happy that my figures on poverty were the only part of my diatribe that you disagreed with. I might talk about Grdon Brown stealing our old age next, by destroying a pension system that was the envy of the world. He certainly stole mine!

Regarding your final sentence, it was Labour that allowed the banks to lend indiscriminately because of their absolute financial ineptitude. A total idiot could forsee that the level of lending by the banks was unsustainable. Why did they allow it to continue?

Yes Labour are culpable, the blame for all our current woes and cuts lies firmly at the feet of the last government, and I use the word "government" loosely. Even without the banking crisis we were careering towards bankrupcy through their out of control profligate spending, but wasn't it ever thus with Labour? The tories spend a decade getting the country back on it's feet and then along come Labour and blow it again, like mad spendaholics with someone else's credit card. Our children and grandchildren will be paying the debts of the last government for the next 30 years.

God preserve us from ever having to be ruled by them again!

Re: Human Rights!!!!

Aerolor, each group who want to make a case against anything do so showing figures in their favour, it is obvious that they would not point out that the funds in their accounts went up ten fold due to the interest rate during the period that you quote.
I know two my investments returned over 900% and Over 800% leaving me fairly well placed financially. I love the Tories for that.
Show me figures where people claim poverty and I will show you figures showing they are not, 2 and 2 make 4!! does it?
It all depends on the little sign that is placed between the two 2's. +, -, /, *, the choice is yours to make it say what you want to.

Good morning Antibrown. I will leave Uncle Joe to answer the points you have made in relation to his post and in response to the piece above in bold I would say that people who are struggling and living on or below the poverty line do not have savings and investments and cannot take advantage from good interest rates and stock markets as others do. Also the figures I am referring to have been collected since 1961 by a very reputable organisation and I am prepared to believe that they are reasonably accurate. I suggest you ake a look on the site for more detailed informaton and history.
My point was that Plantman's understanding was not correcct when he said "Ironically, they left more people in poverty after 13 years in power than there were in 1997" In fact the opposite was true - there was more income poverty recorded under Conservative government than Labour.
If I remember correctly it was a Conservative Thatcher government that destroyed our manufacturing industries and deliberately laid waste our mining industry, etc.etc. In my opinion she has a lot to answer for.

Re: Human Rights!!!!

Aerolor

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...an-413777.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/575219.stm

Aerolor, no matter what we think of Margaret Thatcher she has gone down in history as one of the best UK prime Ministers.

When Tony Blair came to power 1997, I did a fun questionaire about politics with my workforce ( OK only 10 of them ) but one of the questions was would Tony Blair be a better than Margaret Thatcher as Prime Minister? 100 % said no.

I admired her for breaking the unions power over the country.

When we started my investments schemes we did not have any savings either but we foresaw the future of our kids and old age and we invested every penny that was spare at the end of the month.

I do not doubt the findings of the Child Poverty Action Group, what I would doubt is the range of people from whom they gathered their information and under what circumstances.

Manufacturing has been in the decline through all party governments, no one party can clainm the fame for making Napoleons staement of Britain come true, namely, we are a nation of Shop keepers.

Re: Human Rights!!!!

I remember 1979 vividly, and the debacle that masqueraded as Jim Callagfhan's Labour government. What a shower. The country was being held to ransom by the trades unions and Labour were powerless to stop it. Thank goodness Margaret Thatcher had the strength and fortitude to rescue the country and take power away from reckless union leaders that had tried to bring Britain to it's knees for their own political reasons.

It's a fact of life that you cannot continue to support industries that are uneconomic. I lived and worked in a mining area and was sickened by the arrogance of "working men" that openly bragged about doing no work whilst being paid quite handsomely for doing it. No-one else could afford to burn coal, it had been priced out of everyone's reach. It was the same with many other heavy engineering industries. The workers wanted too much for doing too little and were undercut by other countries who were more efficient. Remember British Leyland? Was there ever a more rubbish product? Thank goodness for the Japanese, who have taught the world how it should be done.

The "workers" of Britain and their union leaders destroyed their own industries. Margaret Thatcher was our saviour. God bless her, we could use her again, right now!

Re: Human Rights!!!!

I suffered massively under the Thatcher Govt. I was vilified, abused and made to feel subhuman because my husband left me with 3 children to bring up and I was instantly classed as a feckless immoral scrounging Single Parent.
We used to say Maggie was fine... as long as you never got ill, never got old, never got unemployed.
It was the worst time of my life.

Re: Human Rights!!!!

This thread seems to have gone way off topic, but I will post one time more - 'cos I can't resist .

Plantman - It was not just this country that was spending money as if it was going out of fashion - everybody thought they could and that the "good times" would last. The World Banks (America in particular) lent money to anyone and for almost purpose without considering if they could pay it back or not. It was a World Banking fiasco that brought everything crashing to an end and left the mess we have now. Labour are not perfect - no party is, but it is not now just this country that is having to pay for overspending and allowing things to get out of hand. We are in a Worldwide recession at the moment and almost everyone is fighting to get on top of it.

I don't know whether you consider yourselves to be "working men" or not Plantman and Antibrown, but I think the majority of working people were and still are hardworking and industrious - not everyone blindly follows the Unions, or even belongs to a Union. I think you do people an injustice when you generalise so.

Just to digress a little further - the following is also in the press and on the news at the moment. I am sure you have read this in The Independent today Antibrown - It certainly tells me where Conservative loyalties must lie and it is certainly not with the working men and women of this country. I am not talking class here - simply referring to anyone who works for their living.

Revealed: how the City bankrolls Tory party
Donations from financiers quadruple in five years

By Oliver Wright, Whitehall Editor
Wednesday, 9 February 2011

The Conservative Party has become reliant on bankers, hedge fund managers and private equity moguls for more than half its annual income, an independent analysis of Tory finances has revealed. Since David Cameron became Conservative leader in December 2005, the amount of money the City has given to bankroll the Tories has gone up fourfold, to £11.4m a year. Over those five years, the City has donated more than £42m to the party.

The research, conducted by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, highlights how reliant the party has become on the City at a time when David Cameron and George Osborne are under pressure to reform the financial sector.

Since Mr Cameron assumed the leadership, the Conservative Party has become twice as dependent on City funding: from 25 per cent of its total donations to nearly 51 per cent in 2010.