25-08-2020, 08:46 PM
21
Re: Barnier Spits his Dummy Out
Originally Posted by Donkeyman
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Your last paragraph says it all, and l agree with entirely except thatI would alter the your opening statement to say " the eu has NEVER
played a significant role in CREATING UKs wealth, rather the
opposite??
Donkeyman! 🤔🤔🤔
I am sure you are aware of those voices that claim that the UK was once the "sick man of Europe" and all that. I was too young then and was not interested in politics anyway so I cannot say if that is/was true or not.
(In German it is ok to start a sentence with "but" and I remember someone mentioned it is not ok in English. So please forgive me, I am still practicing...)
But honestly between all those talks about the "evil EU" I am missing cheerfullness and people being delighted by the prospect of the UKs golden future. Come on it doesn't matter if the EU is or was important for the UKs wealth or not. Let's look forward and be happy.
Although I must admit to be a little sceptical about the degree of the golden future, it is great that the UK had this chance for a once-in-a-lifetime decision.
25-08-2020, 08:55 PM
22
Re: Barnier Spits his Dummy Out
Originally Posted by JBR
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I'm afraid we can't just walk away, much as I'd like us to.Unfortunately, Traitor May
effectively signed us up to a 'withdrawal agreement' which entailed us discussing an agreement for a year.Most of us, I suspect, would very much like to just walk away now and prepare to trade under WTO rules because, as you quite rightly say, there won't be a FTA. The EU are simply making the best of the 'transition period' during which we continue to pay into their coffers.
The financial obligations originating from your membership period, like for e. g. British MEPs pensions, are a different cup of tea naturally.
You are the first member to leave and all this membership is a hugely complicated construct. Maybe too complicated to foresee all obstacles. The next exits will be easier I think.
25-08-2020, 09:11 PM
23
Re: Barnier Spits his Dummy Out
Originally Posted by JBR
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I'm sorry, but I disagree.For 40 years, the EU mandarins have become used to dictating to us what we must and must not do.
This little Froggy is now stamping his feet in a temper tantrum because we're not following his orders this time!
Get used to it, Barmy. We are, once again, our own country. You have failed.
I like Germany and I like the Germans. I honestly feel that Germany, too, would be better off out of the EU.
Its withdrawal would, of course, be difficult as it is now so deeply involved financially.
Personally, I'd like to see a free-trade, but non-political agreement with Germany, along with other European countries (but not the Frogs - our traditional enemy!), rather like the EEC once was.
One thing about "the Germans" which I like is that they can be very honest in times. Do you know the saying
"the Britains are too polite to be honest and the Germans are too honest to be polite"?
IMO there is some truth in it...
The argument of newly achieved freedom is brought up very often. Amazing though that I did not yet hear an answer to the question "what can you do that you could not do before"?
Could you be so nice to give some examples of what the new freedom entails? Thank you in advance.
About Germany being out of the EU I might agree with you to some extend. I think that the EU would be better off without Germany in the long run.
When I see what problems you and others seem to have with the Frensh I really hope that the next generations will manage to let go of the "WW2 thing" and forget about the enmity towards France and also Germany.
25-08-2020, 09:19 PM
24
Re: Barnier Spits his Dummy Out
Originally Posted by 7779311
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At first I found it a good idea to agree on a two years implementation time and the transition phase. Now as we see how that works out it would have been better to activate article 50 and be out after say six or nine months. No matter what.The financial obligations originating from your membership period, like for e. g. British MEPs pensions, are a different cup of tea naturally.
You are the first member to leave and all this membership is a hugely complicated construct. Maybe too complicated to foresee all obstacles. The next exits will be easier I think.
Article 50 has of course a hard deadline of 2 years. This to me seems only necessary because apart from making up the balance of outstanding bills, both parties are required to come up with a shared view on the future relationship. If you skip from article 50 the obligation for that shared view (now called the political declaration) you can conclude how much money is owed, by whom, and part ways on friendly terms.
If that had happened with brexit, the UK could have been out of the EU somewhere in 2018. From then on negotiations on all aspects of membership the UK had forfeited could have started. Both parties would have been able to make a more accurate estimate of the need either felt to regain privileges lost.
25-08-2020, 09:28 PM
25
Re: Barnier Spits his Dummy Out
Originally Posted by 7779311
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I am sure you are aware of those voices that claim that the UK was once the "sick man of Europe" and all that. I was too young then and was not interested in politics anyway so I cannot say if that is/was true or not.
This usually happens when a Conservative government takes over the reins from a Labour government.
Originally Posted by 7779311
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(In German it is ok to start a sentence with "but" and I remember someone mentioned it is not ok in English. So please forgive me, I am still practicing...)
Originally Posted by 7779311
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But honestly between all those talks about the "evil EU" I am missing cheerfullness and people being delighted by the prospect of the UKs golden future. Come on it doesn't matter if the EU is or was important for the UKs wealth or not. Let's look forward and be happy.
However (there, that's how to do it!), I and the majority of Brits will indeed be both cheerful and delighted if and when we are, once again, a sovereign country and free to make our own way in the world, free of a dictatorship.
25-08-2020, 09:31 PM
26
Re: Barnier Spits his Dummy Out
Originally Posted by Solasch
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Article 50 has of course a hard deadline of 2 years. This to me seems only necessary because apart from making up the balance of outstanding bills, both parties are required to come up with a shared view on the future relationship. If you skip from article 50 the obligation for that shared view (now called the political declaration) you can conclude how much money is owed, by whom, and part ways on friendly terms.If that had happened with brexit, the UK could have been out of the EU somewhere in 2018. From then on negotiations on all aspects of membership the UK had forfeited could have started. Both parties would have been able to make a more accurate estimate of the need either felt to regain privileges lost.
As we all know this decision process was somewhat "difficult" to say the least. The parties could just say what they did not want instead of stating what they wanted.
Maybe this and the "bad May deal" and the current negotiating difficulties could have been avoided if the exit rules were different.
25-08-2020, 09:39 PM
27
Re: Barnier Spits his Dummy Out
Originally Posted by JBR
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To be correct, a sentence would be better beginning with 'However', which means the same thing. However, a lot of people just use 'But'.I agree. There is still a certain amount of concern that Boris might let us down and we'd be back under the EU's control in one way or another, which is really what Traitor May intended.
However (there, that's how to do it!), I and the majority of Brits will indeed be both cheerful and delighted if and when we are, once again, a sovereign country and free to make our own way in the world, free of a dictatorship.
In Germany many more sentences start with "Yes but", especially if you are talking to a woman...
Can you explain why T. May intended to bring the UK under the EU's control?
25-08-2020, 09:55 PM
30
Re: Barnier Spits his Dummy Out
Originally Posted by 7779311
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Thank you very much for the free English lessonIn Germany many more sentences start with "Yes but", especially if you are talking to a woman...
Can you explain why T. May intended to bring the UK under the EU's control?
Many people believe she wanted to keep us in the EU, contrary to what she promised: "No deal is better than a bad deal", and then promptly attempted to accept a bad deal!
It is thought that she did this for several personal reasons, but at least partly for the benefit of her husband's business interests connected with the EU.
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