Re: There you go - Federal State

I have never seen much wrong with the United States of Europe or the Commonwealth of Europe, it sounds very sensible to me.

Australia's Constitution was written to protect state's rights in a commonwealth of states. Why not Europe?

Re: There you go - Federal State

Who makes your laws?

Do your people elect them?

Re: There you go - Federal State

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-drinking.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...aking-job.html

Re: There you go - Federal State

A Federation is an excellent idea. Unfortunately, we no longer have a vote so it hardly applies to us does it? Pity is wasn't done years ago then we wouldn't be in this mess now. If the latest panic about a new banking collapse in September this year is true, we'll be in an even worse mess.

Re: There you go - Federal State

After all the unfounded scare stories, I'm not panicking about a new banking collapse.

We've always had our ups and downs. I believe that from here on in it will in general be 'ups'.

Re: There you go - Federal State

The state and the federal Parliaments each overseen by an elected upper house (except in Queensland) make the laws. The State parliament is elected by residents of the state and the federal parliament by residents of the states and territories.

All electorates are kept approximately the same size in population (within 10% of each other) which leads to some pretty big electorates for example in NSW Parkes is nearly 400,000 sq km whereas Grayner is 32 sq km. Also as populations change a state can lose a lower house member while another state gains one.

It's a Westminster parliamentary system but unlike Westminster both houses are elected. In NSW elections are held every 4 years for a fixed term whereas the Federal elections are every 3 years, (then of course there are the council elections)

Voting is compulsory, always held on a Saturday and is a preferential system. We end up with the government we deserve elected by 99% of the electors.

The constitution embodies the doctrine of the separation of powers and retains state's rights; it is actually a bill passed by Westminster in July 1900 called "The Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act".

I can't see why a similar system could not work in Europe (except you wouldn't have the territories - they only have 2 senators instead of 12, because they are not states).

Re: There you go - Federal State

Best of luck with that.

Re: There you go - Federal State

The gaping difference is that the EU is just a collective of many different countries and many of those countries have differing views, aims and ambitions to the UK.

Having all the Aussie states lumped together is ok because you are all fundamentally Australian.

The EU is NOTHING like that. The EU states are:

Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and the UK

As a country (and it doesn't matter which one) you have to ask yourself, what interest do the other countries have in our country? The answer is "very little". What do the citizens of the UK for example, care about Slovenia or the Czech Republic (other than passing interest during the Football World Cup)?

Equally what do any of those countries care about the UK? Very little.

So there is no real connection there between all these countries other than they are all collectively one large land mass.

When it comes to wanting to effect some kind of change, a change in regulations, laws etc then you need 260 votes to get a majority from the total 352 votes of all these EU states.
The UK has only 29 votes.

Thus being part of a "Federation" of EU states simply means that the UK as a Nation, as a people, as a set of customs and traditions, has effectively No Say whatsoever in amongst this larger collective.

We could never achieve any change unless we managed to get the support of most of the other EU states and they have no vested interest in helping us, just as we have no vested interest in helping them. This is why the EU has failed to e reformed in all these years, why Cameron's "negotiations" came to nothing.

Being in the EU was simply the death of a nation. The end of Britain as a Nation, as a People.

If you're a Star Trek fan then you can think of it as the UK about to be Assimilated into the Borg (EU) state, thereby losing all identity, losing Westminster, UK Parliament, our political parties, our ability to vote at General Elections (which become meaningless in an EU Federal State).

We lose our voice, our democracy, our identity and ultimately our freedom. All the things our grandfathers fought for and lay bleeding and dying on muddy fields to protect and preserve.

No-one out there really cares much for the UK. Would we want Germany for example to hold a casting vote on changes that affect our country? Do they have our best interests at heart? Do Hungary or Bulgaria or Romania?

The EU is all about giving up your national interests, your identity, your freedoms and being part of a federal superstate that would quickly become as big as the USA and likely end up as a totalitarian police state imo.

We are better off out. We had a very lucky escape, that is, providing they DO take us out.

Re: There you go - Federal State

The Common Fisheries Policy is one example where, the UK, having to "tow the EU line" has seen its fishing industry decimated due to the Quota system. This is how it all started:

"In 1970, the original six Common Market members realized that four countries applying to join the Common Market at that time (Britain, Ireland, Denmark including Greenland, and Norway) would control the richest fishing grounds in the world. The original six therefore drew up Council Regulation 2141/70 giving all Members equal access to all fishing waters, even though the Treaty of Rome gave no authority to do this. This was adopted on the morning of 30 June 1970, a few hours before the applications to join were officially received. This ensured that the regulations became part of the acquis communautaire before the new members joined, obliging them to accept the regulation. At first the UK refused to accept the rules but by the end of 1971 the UK gave way and signed the Accession Treaty on 22 January 1972, thereby handing over an estimated four fifths of all the fish off Western Europe[citation needed]. Norway decided not to join. Greenland left the EC in 1985, after having gained partial independence in 1979."

This is the kind of corruption and BS inherent in the EU. The Lisbon Treaty clauses state categorically that any EU member state must support the EU aims and agendas. Thus once you are firmly a part of the EU, you have to tow the line and that line has little to do with British/UK aims/ambitions. If you don't like it, well it's tough, you have no choice but to support the EU. You could of course strike up a petition or submission to make a change to EU policy, but then as I said in my previous post, the UK only has 29 votes in a system that requires you get 260 votes to gain a majority. It is an utterly hopeless situation.

Do any of those other EU member states give a fig about UK fishing industries?

Nope.

Re: There you go - Federal State

Bloody marvellous post.