11-03-2013, 09:15 PM
23
Re: Arthur Scargill - the miners' hero.
Originally Posted by plantman
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However you feel about the miners on a personal level, the question must be what other course of action could there be when an industry is producing something that is no longer needed? Should we have kept paying the miners to produce millions of tons of coal which no-one could afford to burn? Many industries have boomed and then become redundant through progress on other fronts, and those industries have been killed off by that progress. What makes the miners' case any different ?
As for Scargill I doubt many people will mourn him, he was a bully first and a fool second. "Lions led by donkeys" was the phrase often used at the time I believe...
12-03-2013, 01:03 AM
24
Re: Arthur Scargill - the miners' hero.
It was a clash of the Titans. She used all the powers of the state against them, there could be and only was one winner.The majority of the miners followed Scargill and not blindly. They were far from the ignorant men from times gone by. They knew exactly what they were going into and why.
It was a year long strike that caused rifts and suffering, the support for the miners was fantastic. There will never be their like again.
12-03-2013, 09:51 AM
25
Re: Arthur Scargill - the miners' hero.
The selfishness of the miners and the arrogance of the unions destroyed the coal industry for not seeing the writing on the wall. Much of the industry could have continued if they had modernised and streamlined it, but the intransigence and the political ambitions of the unions prevented that.The buck stops with the strikers and their union masters and no-one else. No government can allow itself to be blackmailed by a minority, particularly by one that is so unrepresentative of the majority...
12-03-2013, 10:25 AM
26
Re: Arthur Scargill - the miners' hero.
Originally Posted by plantman
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It is hard to argue the fact that our reliance, and therefore our need for coal was fast diminishing. Ships and locomotives were all starting to use oil and diesel, power stations were being converted to natural gas and nuclear, and coal domestic heating was virtually redundant…even miners were giving up their coal free allowance in favour of a payment towards their gas bill! Yes the country still burns some coal and will for the foreseeable future, but you have to admit that times had moved on and things had to change.The main cause of the total decimation of the industry rather than a downsizing of course, was the fact that powerful union bosses such as Scargill were using the miners as cannon fodder in their war against the government. The virtual anarchy of the unions had nearly brought the country to it’s knees before, when they brought down the Labour government of Jim Callaghan in 1979, and now they tried to continue the battle against Mrs Thatcher’s government. It was a battle the government could not afford to lose and the miners were therefore masters of their own demise as they blindly followed their union masters who arrogantly fought to impose their will on the rest of the country. Mrs Thatcher had to win this battle, and it was because of the unions that the industry was decimated because they would not negotiate any other way forward. It was they themselves who decided on the battle, and ultimately it was they themselves that dictated the outcome, with Mrs. Thatcher and the conservative government being a very convenient scapegoat for the miner's own abject stupidity.
12-03-2013, 12:21 PM
27
Re: Arthur Scargill - the miners' hero.
Originally Posted by ben-varrey
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Absolutely correct plantman - Arthur Scargill vowed to destroy Thatcher's government and he lost - once he had thrown down the gauntlet to them, what else were they supposed to do? Although I greatly admire the concept of unions (if they are needed), they are largely to blame for the reason that the British worker priced themselves, and Britain, out of ability to trade at a price that others wanted to buy and, ultimately, sent our cost of living sky-rocketing.
Both sides were to blame for the demise of our coal industry and I will never believe that almost total destruction was necessary. We, as taxpayers, and the miners certainly paid the price for those closures. If it is all totalled up it perhaps could be shown that the decisions made were not so necessary after all. I wonder if anyone has taken all the costs into the equation (redundanncies, long term welfare, enduring unemployment, future costs to import, etc. etc.). Maybe no-one dare do it.
12-03-2013, 01:58 PM
28
Re: Arthur Scargill - the miners' hero.
12-03-2013, 02:01 PM
29
Re: Arthur Scargill - the miners' hero.
Originally Posted by ben-varrey
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Absolutely correct plantman - Arthur Scargill vowed to destroy Thatcher's government and he lost - once he had thrown down the gauntlet to them, what else were they supposed to do? Although I greatly admire the concept of unions (if they are needed), they are largely to blame for the reason that the British worker priced themselves, and Britain, out of ability to trade at a price that others wanted to buy and, ultimately, sent our cost of living sky-rocketing.
12-03-2013, 02:18 PM
30
Re: Arthur Scargill - the miners' hero.
Originally Posted by Pats CG
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Well it was about time the 'fat cats' took less - and gave the miners and their like a decent wage....
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