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shropshiregirl
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28-07-2019, 10:47 AM
11

Re: Remember HS2? Boris approves HS3!

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->
Hi

HS2 was jobs for the boys, makes no difference to ordinary people, who could not afford the tickets anyway.

Far better to scrap it and making life better better for millions who use the trains every day.

I am absolutely fed up with the London Elite.
Never a truer word spoken Swimmy. Oh, for a government who would have the courage to say 'enough is enough', kick all these grandoise rail schemes for the rich only and just spend all that money on improving the crappy rail service that already exists.

Take for example here in Shropshire. When I was commuting from a small rural station (Gobowen) with just one line up and one line down, and trains running just one an hour either way. For years I had to stand and watch as Arriva North Wales sent an express train whizzing through our little station without stopping to take us just one stop to Shrewsbury so we could catch a connecting train onwards to the Midlands. The reason? It was an express laid on especially for members from North Wales to be taken into Cardiff to the Welsh Assembly. Far too grand to stop for us plebs at a small station who used to stand there in the cold, praying that our once an hour train wouldn't be cancelled, (which it frequently was!). It used to make my blood boil to think we would have to wait 2 hours until the next train while that express sailed through without stopping.
Local goods trains also took precedence over our train!

Absolutely disgraceful!
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28-07-2019, 10:56 AM
12

Re: Remember HS2? Boris approves HS3!

Originally Posted by Judd ->
The real reason for HS2 of course is so that those who work in London can live further afield and commute. Sure as eggs is eggs, they are the only ones who would be able to afford the extortionate fares.

Surely, what is saved on a £1 Million mortgage can be spent on a train ticket?
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28-07-2019, 11:30 AM
13

Re: Remember HS2? Boris approves HS3!

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
Right on the nail Swimmy!
Why build a railway when it is allready cheaper to fly to
Scotland and quicker?
Donkeywoman recently flew to Athens for about fortyfive
Quid!!
Who needs a railway unless it is the cheapest means of
travel? Can anybody tell me how a high speed, high cost!
passenger train is going to benefit the north of England??

Regards Donkeyman!
Air travel becomes very expensive when all of the costs of city centre to city centre are added in.

Time is the kicker. The time to get to the airport for one. Then the time between airport door to aircraft door. At the destination airport time from aircraft door to airport door, then time from airport to city centre.

Now replace hours with pounds. Let's assume that the loaded labour rate for a mid level executive is around £250,000 per year.

That means that the cost to an employer of even a mid level executive is approx £160.00 per hour.

Now throw in the work that can be done on a train with what can be done on a plane when apart from anything else working on a short haul flight is like trying to poke a red hot needle up the backside of a rabid hedgehog.

Even with only a 25% (?) effectiveness at that's an added value.

It often surprises people when the real cost of things get exposed, and of course that doesn't consider the dust - to - rust environmental cost s let alone fuel costs per passenger plus freight mile.
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28-07-2019, 12:05 PM
14

Re: Remember HS2? Boris approves HS3!

Originally Posted by Floydy ->
They should have still extended this particular rail line to Hull as they were originally planning to do. Manchester and Leeds do not have a port. Hull is absolutely perfect for a European trade line and the link with the Humber Bridge is even more suitable.
But they could extend the line to Hull in the east and Liverpool in the west at a later date though you can expect the road hauliers to be against this.
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28-07-2019, 01:25 PM
15

Re: Remember HS2? Boris approves HS3!

Originally Posted by The Artful Todger ->
Air travel becomes very expensive when all of the costs of city centre to city centre are added in.

Time is the kicker. The time to get to the airport for one. Then the time between airport door to aircraft door. At the destination airport time from aircraft door to airport door, then time from airport to city centre.

Now replace hours with pounds. Let's assume that the loaded labour rate for a mid level executive is around £250,000 per year.

That means that the cost to an employer of even a mid level executive is approx £160.00 per hour.

Now throw in the work that can be done on a train with what can be done on a plane when apart from anything else working on a short haul flight is like trying to poke a red hot needle up the backside of a rabid hedgehog.

Even with only a 25% (?) effectiveness at that's an added value.

It often surprises people when the real cost of things get exposed, and of course that doesn't consider the dust - to - rust environmental cost s let alone fuel costs per passenger plus freight mile.
You have not answered my question Todge, you have only
given reasons why air travel is not as cheap as it appears?
My question was, how HS2 will benefit the northern regions
of UK, and l also offered a couple of reasons why it would
not?
As an aside, l do not accept your premise that the hordes of
highly paid, highly skilled executives you envisage working their
whatsitsv off va internet whilst on the train to increase their
productivity is a realistic vision given the current attitude of
the the London bubble dwellers to anything north of
Cambridge!!
Your last paragraph also raises the main question in my post
about the relative costs per mile of air travel v rail in the
UK???
Regards Donkeyman!
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28-07-2019, 01:41 PM
16

Re: Remember HS2? Boris approves HS3!

Originally Posted by Judd ->
But they could extend the line to Hull in the east and Liverpool in the west at a later date though you can expect the road hauliers to be against this.
Yes l think the hauliers will be against any extension to
rail freight, Juddy? I think they are also against us leaving
the eu??
But l believe we can do with a reduction in road freight
in view of the pollution, and damage to our minor roads
and country towns it causes!
Perhaps you could answer a question l have about HS2,
Will it be able to carry freight?
Regards Donkeyman!
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28-07-2019, 02:11 PM
17

Re: Remember HS2? Boris approves HS3!

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
You have not answered my question Todge, you have only
given reasons why air travel is not as cheap as it appears?
My question was, how HS2 will benefit the northern regions
of UK, and l also offered a couple of reasons why it would
not?
As an aside, l do not accept your premise that the hordes of
highly paid, highly skilled executives you envisage working their
whatsitsv off va internet whilst on the train to increase their
productivity is a realistic vision given the current attitude of
the the London bubble dwellers to anything north of
Cambridge!!
Your last paragraph also raises the main question in my post
about the relative costs per mile of air travel v rail in the
UK???
Regards Donkeyman!
A high speed rail backbone is one essential component in movement of freight off roads and on to less environmentally damaging links.

Highly paid execs? I'd hardly call a mid range executive who has a loaded labour rate of £250,000 highly paid.

Working their nuts off? Hardly, nor necessarily using the Net. There are reports to be read, reports to be prepared, essential professional publications to be studied and by no means all of these things on the net. There's even plain old thinking time that has to be spent.

HS2+ will extend the rail backbone North and it will make sense when HS2+, let's call it HS3 is in place, and even more when HS4 extending the backbone into a Scottish hub and then a further High Speed link into the West country is brought in.

It's called progress. If people had not invested in progress then the probability is that there would still be steam locomotives on the rails, no motorways, and lame duck industries churning out crap with production costs higher than factory gate prices while all the time being subsidised by hard working tax payers.
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28-07-2019, 07:11 PM
18

Re: Remember HS2? Boris approves HS3!

Originally Posted by The Artful Todger ->
A high speed rail backbone is one essential component in movement of freight off roads and on to less environmentally damaging links.

Highly paid execs? I'd hardly call a mid range executive who has a loaded labour rate of £250,000 highly paid.

Working their nuts off? Hardly, nor necessarily using the Net. There are reports to be read, reports to be prepared, essential professional publications to be studied and by no means all of these things on the net. There's even plain old thinking time that has to be spent.

HS2+ will extend the rail backbone North and it will make sense when HS2+, let's call it HS3 is in place, and even more when HS4 extending the backbone into a Scottish hub and then a further High Speed link into the West country is brought in.

It's called progress. If people had not invested in progress then the probability is that there would still be steam locomotives on the rails, no motorways, and lame duck industries churning out crap with production costs higher than factory gate prices while all the time being subsidised by hard working tax payers.
I see you mention HS2 and freight in the same breath Todge!
I have never seen that before, anywhere yet?
So am l to believe that we will see trains of over half a mile
in length and weighing possibly 2000 tons travelling at speeds
in excess ot 150 mph from Leeds to wherever freight goes to
in the home counties??
We may be able to launch a satellite, but that is stretching my
imagination to far?
Regards Donkeyman!
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28-07-2019, 07:55 PM
19

Re: Remember HS2? Boris approves HS3!

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
I see you mention HS2 and freight in the same breath Todge!
I have never seen that before, anywhere yet?
So am l to believe that we will see trains of over half a mile
in length and weighing possibly 2000 tons travelling at speeds
in excess ot 150 mph from Leeds to wherever freight goes to
in the home counties??
We may be able to launch a satellite, but that is stretching my
imagination to far?
Regards Donkeyman!
Checkout freightliner developments.
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28-07-2019, 08:20 PM
20

Re: Remember HS2? Boris approves HS3!

Originally Posted by The Artful Todger ->
Checkout freightliner developments.
Is this happening anywhere in the world at all Todgy,
Sounds more like a concept to me,
We cant even stop our rails from buckling in a few degrees
of ambient temp increase yet??
Regards Donkeyman!
 
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