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Zaphod
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13-01-2021, 07:45 PM
101

Re: Is Brexit over ??

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
HOW do you shrink an orange or an apple??? 😃
You are preaching to the converted Zaphod !!
All that you have said seems so obvious to me !!
But all we get is " don't rock the boat " !!

donkeyman! 🙃🙃
You would think that if the most fervent of Brexiters like Sir Bill Cash, Jacob Reese-Mogg, and even Nigel Farage are happy enough that there has been no outcry from any of them that any reasonable person would be if not ecstatic then at least optimistic, wouldn't you?
But no.
Sadly there are some folk who are even more extreme in their opinions.



(That wasn't a "dig" at you Percy, but there are those that still seem to think we have been betrayed or somehow sold out despite all evidence being to the contrary.)
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13-01-2021, 07:55 PM
102

Re: Is Brexit over ??

I do hope people have access to The Telegraph, because here is the opinion of a young and apparently well-educated former remainer:

"I hate to admit it, but my Eurosceptic father was right about Brexit "

"If I had been old enough to vote in 2016, I would have voted Remain. More recently, I even backed a second referendum on the final Brexit deal. Until 24 December, I, too, was worried that the new trade agreement would be ruinous. But, in truth, the deal is better than anything I’d imagined over the years since the referendum."

"I hate to admit it, but it looks like my Brexit-voting father was right. If we work hard and keep a positive attitude, Britain can be better off post-Brexit"

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...-right-brexit/
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13-01-2021, 08:25 PM
103

Re: Is Brexit over ??

Originally Posted by Zaphod ->
You would think that if the most fervent of Brexiters like Sir Bill Cash, Jacob Reese-Mogg, and even Nigel Farage are happy enough that there has been no outcry from any of them that any reasonable person would be if not ecstatic then at least optimistic, wouldn't you?
But no.
Sadly there are some folk who are even more extreme in their opinions.



(That wasn't a "dig" at you Percy, but there are those that still seem to think we have been betrayed or somehow sold out despite all evidence being to the contrary.)
If you can answer my question Zaphod?
What advantage is it to wait 5-5 years before we can reduce EUs
Quotas by 25%?? It will go a long way to reconciling me to the
Boris deal ?
When you mention hard line Tory MPs being in favour of "the deal"
That only makes me suspicious that they are saying that due to
the much vaunted Tory party loyalty, and they once again putting
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13-01-2021, 08:32 PM
104

Re: Is Brexit over ??

Originally Posted by Zaphod ->
You would think that if the most fervent of Brexiters like Sir Bill Cash, Jacob Reese-Mogg, and even Nigel Farage are happy enough that there has been no outcry from any of them that any reasonable person would be if not ecstatic then at least optimistic, wouldn't you?
But no.
Sadly there are some folk who are even more extreme in their opinions.



(That wasn't a "dig" at you Percy, but there are those that still seem to think we have been betrayed or somehow sold out despite all evidence being to the contrary.)
If you can answer my question Zaphod?
What advantage is it to wait 5-5 years before we can reduce EUs
Quotas by 25%?? It will go a long way to reconciling me to the

Boris deal ?
When you mention hard line Tory MPs being in favour of "the deal"
That only makes me suspicious that they are saying that due to
the much vaunted Tory party loyalty, and they are
once again putting
party first ?
I will continue to support Boris if he makes the right moves in the
NEAR future, which it is quite possible will happen 🤔

Donkeyman! 🤗🤗

PS. I don't think he betrayed us, l think the EU out manouvered him !
remember he kicked Frosty off the negotiations ??
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13-01-2021, 08:54 PM
105

Re: Is Brexit over ??

Aren't we forgetting about the EU's control of Northern Ireland?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...illary-benn-vn

That's part of the UK that hasn't left the EU!

I believe they're after Scotland too, with the help of the Fish Woman.

No mention of Wales yet, though.

This is not complete freedom from the EU.
This is not complete sovereignty of the UK.
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14-01-2021, 12:08 AM
106

Re: Is Brexit over ??

Originally Posted by JBR ->
Aren't we forgetting about the EU's control of Northern Ireland?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...illary-benn-vn

That's part of the UK that hasn't left the EU!

I believe they're after Scotland too, with the help of the Fish Woman.

No mention of Wales yet, though.

This is not complete freedom from the EU.
This is not complete sovereignty of the UK.
I don't think they are allowed to catch Wales JBR??LOL!

Donkeyman! 🤗🤗
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14-01-2021, 01:17 AM
107

Re: Is Brexit over ??

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
I don't think they are allowed to catch Wales JBR??LOL!


Quelle bon mot!
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14-01-2021, 10:38 AM
108

Re: Is Brexit over ??

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
If you can answer my question Zaphod?
What advantage is it to wait 5-5 years before we can reduce EUs
Quotas by 25%?? It will go a long way to reconciling me to the
We're not waiting to reduce quotas by 25%, they are already reduced in some cases AND they will reduce each year.
The schedule is set out in the government link I have posted before.

As far as more and sooner is concerned, that would not benefit us.
Why not?
Simply, we haven't got a fishing fleet to take more fish if we want to; the 5 years is to give our fishing industry time to expand and prepare if they choose to.

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
Boris deal ?
When you mention hard line Tory MPs being in favour of "the deal"
That only makes me suspicious that they are saying that due to
the much vaunted Tory party loyalty, and they are
once again putting
party first ?
I will continue to support Boris if he makes the right moves in the
NEAR future, which it is quite possible will happen 🤔
Yes "Boris deal" - he was in charge when the deal was agreed.
The likes of Sir Bill Cash and the ERG were promising revolt if the deal offered wasn't up to scratch, and as for them supporting the Tory party, do you mean in the same way that MP's supported the needs of the people with their failure to implement Brexit for years?
Or do you mean like the Tories that Boris removed because they failed to support Brexit?
IMHO ignoring the power that the fervent pro-Brexiters like the above is to ignore the probability that they could have gone on divide the Tories and finish their chance of governing for decades, possibly also to instead support Nigel's new party.
Because the deal is OK that's no longer likely.


Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
PS. I don't think he betrayed us, l think the EU out manouvered him !
remember he kicked Frosty off the negotiations ??
When even EU politicians and EU media think that it is the UK have outmanouvered the EU I would have to suggest that your opinions are misguided.
Lord Frost was not kicked off negotiations.
Where on Earth do you get that from?
He was no more "kicked off" than Barmier was.
What you're describing is the tactics that worked by pushing the EU into offering the UK a deal, nothing more.

I have said it before: I think that Boris and Lord Frost together have played the EU perfectly after inheriting an absolute shambles from May.
Between them they threatened and cajoled - and it worked!
We got the free trade we wanted without any loss of sovereignty - and that (again) is the considered opinion of men far more knowledgable than you or I who were sceptical beforehand.

Now we're out it is time to move on and make the most of new opportunities.
From what I see so far things look positive.
Very positive.
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14-01-2021, 10:44 AM
109

Re: Is Brexit over ??

Originally Posted by JBR ->
Aren't we forgetting about the EU's control of Northern Ireland?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...illary-benn-vn

That's part of the UK that hasn't left the EU!

I believe they're after Scotland too, with the help of the Fish Woman.

No mention of Wales yet, though.

This is not complete freedom from the EU.
This is not complete sovereignty of the UK.
You're off on another misguided rant I see.
If only you could read a few facts before putting your foot in it.


"The government will have “no hesitation” in taking unilateral action to protect trade between Britain and Northern Ireland if post-Brexit disruption to food supplies and trade continues, Boris Johnson warned the EU yesterday."
'... he insisted that if they persisted or worsened the government was prepared to invoke Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol.

This allows ministers to “unilaterally take appropriate safeguard measures” if the way in which the protocol is enforced leads to “serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties that are liable to persist”.
'

So the UK can unilaterally change things?
That sounds very much like the UK has complete sovereignty to me.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...rned-fhwlcp28t


Oh and BTW, even Sir John Redwood recognises that we can do this.

https://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2021/0...reland-border/
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14-01-2021, 11:54 AM
110

Re: Is Brexit over ??

Originally Posted by Zaphod ->
You're off on another misguided rant I see.
If only you could read a few facts before putting your foot in it.


"The government will have “no hesitation” in taking unilateral action to protect trade between Britain and Northern Ireland if post-Brexit disruption to food supplies and trade continues, Boris Johnson warned the EU yesterday."
'... he insisted that if they persisted or worsened the government was prepared to invoke Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol.

This allows ministers to “unilaterally take appropriate safeguard measures” if the way in which the protocol is enforced leads to “serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties that are liable to persist”.
'

So the UK can unilaterally change things?
That sounds very much like the UK has complete sovereignty to me.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...rned-fhwlcp28t


Oh and BTW, even Sir John Redwood recognises that we can do this.

https://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2021/0...reland-border/

It looks like your trust in the deal should be communicated to Barmier,
Who yesterday stated that the problems experienced so far in
implementing the new. rules are only the beginning, and are set to
worsen and become permanent as that is the nature of the deal !!
In other words, to my way of thinking , he is going to ensure that we
are going to suffer!! Not a good start to a new supposedly mutually
beneficial "deal imo??
BTW you did'nt fully answer my question about the five year delay
before we get the 25% quota increase, the way l read it that 25% is
going to be the maximum we will ever get, please put me right if l
am wrong, maybe l am just more cautious than you??
And l believe that EU Skippers should,as of this moment be
applying to US for fishing licences, we should start as we mean to go
on! Make it clear they WILL get their licence, but they MUST apply
to US for it ?? What is wrong with that??
I am afraid that now Barmier has come out with this last utterance
I have even less confidence in this "deal"!!

Donkeyman! 👎👎

PS. From your last post it seems that Boris& Barmy are allready at
loggerheads? Maybe there's hope for us yet!!
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