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21-11-2020, 10:58 PM
51

Re: Fossil Fuel ending.

Originally Posted by Tachyon ->
They might take a LONG time replacing all the gas systems in my area. It's heavily urbanised and gas heating systems are widespread.
It's very much more likely that electric heating will be installed and gas supplies isolated in small area by small area.
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21-11-2020, 11:03 PM
52

Re: Fossil Fuel ending.

Originally Posted by Tedc ->
When China, and some others, give it some real attention, I'll stop using my little motor!

When prices of fossil fuels start to increase big time - as they must and will - an increasing number of people will give up their cars.
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21-11-2020, 11:14 PM
53

Re: Fossil Fuel ending.

Originally Posted by JBR ->
Yes, I completely agree.

And the most annoying thing is that, despite all these limitations 'we' are imposing on ourselves, we will make absolutely no practical difference to things on a world scale, as many have pointed out citing China, India, America and others. Even our fellow 'EU friends', Germany for example, still mine and burn coal.

Still, as long as the eco-warriors are made to feel better about themselves, what does it matter?
People are forgetting about the economic impact. Everything that the eco-warriors have touched has made life much more expensive. Think food is expensive now ? Ha. Just wait and see what the cost is AFTER carbon based fuels become illegal.

Moreover, jet travel and ocean going ships will not, can not comply with the mandates. A return to the days of sails ? Perhaps cross-channel ferries could be powered by every passenger manning an oar.
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21-11-2020, 11:21 PM
54

Re: Fossil Fuel ending.

Originally Posted by The Artful Todger ->
With the projected load there is no way that renewables could meet the projected needs.

Jet engines driving electric generators? No. Jet fuel is a hydrocarbon. Fuel cells driving electric motors - yes.


The bottom line is that energy use must be cut considerably. That means a huge change to lifestyle. Our profligate energy use HAS to end. And it will.
I doubt energy usage will decline per se. SA has already had 100% of its power needs met by renewables abet for a short period but that is the future.

In the 1980s NSW was running short of power and started campaigns to get people to use less electricity. What happened was that people responded by using their appliances more responsibly and more economically. The coal fired power stations built to cover that shortfall are now reaching the end of their life, it is unlikely they wlll be replaced using the same fuel (much as Scotty would like them to be)

At the same time manufacturers started to produce more efficient goods Tungsten lights were abandoned, there is no less lighting now it just uses less power.

Solar panels are being installed like there is no tomorrow to the point that electricity companies are trying to get the right to turn them off because too much power is flowing into the grid during the day. The idea of 'off peak' has been turned on its head

Snowy 2.0 pumped hydro will provide an additional 2,000 megawatts of dispatchable, on-demand generating capacity and approximately 350,000 megawatt hours of large-scale storage to the National Electricity Market. This will be completed in 2025.

I used to work at the local coal fired power station which produced 320Mw of electricity using 6 steam turbines it has been replaced by a state-of-the-art combined cycle, natural gas power station producing 485Mw in one machine. Its capacity is about to be doubled.

No doubt there will be changes but it is an evolving situation, let's face it who predicted the fax machine or that computers would be used to write letters?

I agree that the motorcycle idea is a pipe dream, if motorcycles had just been invented they would be banned as too dangerous for people transport.
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21-11-2020, 11:40 PM
55

Re: Fossil Fuel ending.

Originally Posted by bakerman ->
People are forgetting about the economic impact. Everything that the eco-warriors have touched has made life much more expensive. Think food is expensive now ? Ha. Just wait and see what the cost is AFTER carbon based fuels become illegal.

Moreover, jet travel and ocean going ships will not, can not comply with the mandates. A return to the days of sails ? Perhaps cross-channel ferries could be powered by every passenger manning an oar.
Yes, life is going to become more expensive in monetary terms but very much less expensive in terms of environmental damage. Living costs have become far too cheap.

Living costs will be one of the drivers when it comes to social changes. There really is no alternative. When it comes to freight costs why not make use of wind power? Leisure travel rail transport is perfect for increased electrification. Air transport, airships are an obvious solution for long haul with hydrogen as a fuel for short haul. Obviously cost will be much higher but we must make the environmental cost the deciding factor where our lives are concerned.

People living in states that are situated in places where continental weather characteristics are a major factor are in for a huge shock but again the alternative to fossil fuels will be a real game changer but once again TINA.

You guys might not like what Extinction Rebellion have been promoting but basically tough.

WHAT THEY ARE PROMOTING IS RIGHT
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21-11-2020, 11:44 PM
56

Re: Fossil Fuel ending.

Originally Posted by bakerman ->
people are forgetting about the economic impact. Everything that the eco-warriors have touched has made life much more expensive. Think food is expensive now ? Ha. Just wait and see what the cost is after carbon based fuels become illegal.

Moreover, jet travel and ocean going ships will not, can not comply with the mandates. A return to the days of sails ? Perhaps cross-channel ferries could be powered by every passenger manning an oar.


Personally, I'd prefer to see a moderate use of coal-fired electricity generation here in the same way that Germany does it.

In the longer term, though, I see the future as nuclear.
Unfortunately, the snowflakes will no doubt complain about that too.
Funny how they have no qualms about the Frogs using nuclear power extensively, though.
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21-11-2020, 11:55 PM
57

Re: Fossil Fuel ending.

Originally Posted by Bruce ->
I doubt energy usage will decline per se. SA has already had 100% of its power needs met by renewables abet for a short period but that is the future.

In the 1980s NSW was running short of power and started campaigns to get people to use less electricity. What happened was that people responded by using their appliances more responsibly and more economically. The coal fired power stations built to cover that shortfall are now reaching the end of their life, it is unlikely they wlll be replaced using the same fuel (much as Scotty would like them to be)

At the same time manufacturers started to produce more efficient goods Tungsten lights were abandoned, there is no less lighting now it just uses less power.

Solar panels are being installed like there is no tomorrow to the point that electricity companies are trying to get the right to turn them off because too much power is flowing into the grid during the day. The idea of 'off peak' has been turned on its head

Snowy 2.0 pumped hydro will provide an additional 2,000 megawatts of dispatchable, on-demand generating capacity and approximately 350,000 megawatt hours of large-scale storage to the National Electricity Market. This will be completed in 2025.

I used to work at the local coal fired power station which produced 320Mw of electricity using 6 steam turbines it has been replaced by a state-of-the-art combined cycle, natural gas power station producing 485Mw in one machine. Its capacity is about to be doubled.

No doubt there will be changes but it is an evolving situation, let's face it who predicted the fax machine or that computers would be used to write letters?

I agree that the motorcycle idea is a pipe dream, if motorcycles had just been invented they would be banned as too dangerous for people transport.
Forget continued use of fossil fuels. It's just not going to happen.

As for motor cycles as personal means of transport - with restrictions on maximum speed and some minor changes to design - perfectly acceptable.

https://images.app.goo.gl/9Nrna7L8cEHFfBz37 shows one of MANY things on the market.
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22-11-2020, 06:58 AM
58

Re: Fossil Fuel ending.

Originally Posted by The Artful Todger ->
It's very much more likely that electric heating will be installed and gas supplies isolated in small area by small area.
Exactly. It will take a long time, which is what I said.
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22-11-2020, 12:22 PM
59

Re: Fossil Fuel ending.

Originally Posted by Tachyon ->
Exactly. It will take a long time, which is what I said.
In the case of gas Tachyron, it should not be neccasary to
remove the gas pipes at all?
As the pipes can be purged of gas and sealed off and left in situ !!
Be much cheaper that way ?? And no disruption either!!

Donkeyman! 😀😀
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22-11-2020, 12:27 PM
60

Re: Fossil Fuel ending.

Originally Posted by The Artful Todger ->
Forget continued use of fossil fuels. It's just not going to happen.

As for motor cycles as personal means of transport - with restrictions on maximum speed and some minor changes to design - perfectly acceptable.

https://images.app.goo.gl/9Nrna7L8cEHFfBz37 shows one of MANY things on the market.
The changes you would make Todge, would change a motorcycle
into a Bond mini car with one front wheel ??
SMALL CHANGES? Dont make me laugh again!!!

Donkeyman! 👍😀👍
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