08-10-2019, 02:50 PM
11
Re: Democratic Britain? Oh come on!
Originally Posted by The Artful Todger
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Britain is not a democracy. Discuss?
But for what it is worth, I always considered Britain to be democratic up until recently.
08-10-2019, 04:42 PM
12
Re: Democratic Britain? Oh come on!
'K, let's start with our voting system.First Past The Post. If there was a choice of two candidates or parties it works fine but the moment a third candidate enters the field it starts to go wrong and if party #3 attracts enough percentage of the vote that it reduces a clear choice between #1 and #2 - then that is when the wheels come off.
Now let's look at one particular election, 1997 when Bliar first formed a government.
The numbers are interesting. Labour won only 43% of the vote, in other words 57% didn't want Labour in office.
With only 43% of the electorate choosing Labour one might think that Labour would have 43% of the Parliamentary seats. Wrong.
Instead Labour won 62% of the seats. That because of the First Past The Post system. And the spread of candidates in constituencies which split the votes.
As a result of the huge Parliamentary majority that Labour government was free to do what they wanted - and my life, did they ever.
That illustrates a part of why our electoral system is not fit for purpose.
More rants on this next and the effects of 'Marginal Seats' on results of election results that mean that the results of elections are far from being democratic.
08-10-2019, 05:06 PM
13
Re: Democratic Britain? Oh come on!
This is slightly off topic...was going to start a new topic about this.America is not a democratic its a Republic where the first past the post does not win Clinton/Trump.
And it leads to this.
https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-10-...ed-states.html
Looks like American could be heading for a civil war
08-10-2019, 05:49 PM
14
Re: Democratic Britain? Oh come on!
Originally Posted by Judd
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Has it ever been democratic? Democracy is just an illusion created to make voters think they are contributing to society. The latest majority vote being ignored by parliament is evidence of this.A piece of sixties graffiti used to say "If voting changed anything they'd make it illegal"
08-10-2019, 05:53 PM
15
Re: Democratic Britain? Oh come on!
Originally Posted by The Artful Todger
->
Britain is not a democracy. Discuss?
09-10-2019, 09:00 AM
16
Re: Democratic Britain? Oh come on!
Originally Posted by caricature
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It could be argued the demonstrators in London are exercising their democrat right.
09-10-2019, 03:22 PM
17
Re: Democratic Britain? Oh come on!
Unlimited democracy is a dreadful way to choose a government. By definition, roughly half the electorate have a below average IQ. Which must mean a good chunk of the electorate haven't the faintest idea what they are voting for.In this country where we have a weird separation of press news and opinion and broadcast news and opinion, we have the vast majority of the press acting as Tory propaganda sheets and TV & radio can do nothing about it. So, not only do a large number not know what they are voting for, even more do not realise they are not exercising a free vote but doing what subtle psychological techniques are telling them to do - hence the brexit referendum result and numerous myths about the main parties.
As has been said, the FPTP voting system is a travesty as seen in the last but one election when UKIP acquired 20% of the vote (or thereabouts) but no seats. Obviously a good thing but equally obviously unjust.
Then there is the indirect effect for the monarchy, the keystone of the establishment and the source of the epic forelock tugging infection that taints so many end ensures perceived (only, never genuinely) elders and betters are treated with deference and dumb acceptance.
This benighted country needs revolution!
09-10-2019, 03:25 PM
18
Re: Democratic Britain? Oh come on!
Originally Posted by Devo
->
Unlimited democracy is a dreadful way to choose a government. By definition, roughly half the electorate have a below average IQ. Which must mean a good chunk of the electorate haven't the faintest idea what they are voting for. In this country where we have a weird separation of press news and opinion and broadcast news and opinion, we have the vast majority of the press acting as Tory propaganda sheets and TV & radio can do nothing about it. So, not only do a large number not know what they are voting for, even more do not realise they are not exercising a free vote but doing what subtle psychological techniques are telling them to do - hence the brexit referendum result and numerous myths about the main parties.
As has been said, the FPTP voting system is a travesty as seen in the last but one election when UKIP acquired 20% of the vote (or thereabouts) but no seats. Obviously a good thing but equally obviously unjust.
Then there is the indirect effect for the monarchy, the keystone of the establishment and the source of the epic forelock tugging infection that taints so many end ensures perceived (only, never genuinely) elders and betters are treated with deference and dumb acceptance.
This benighted country needs revolution!
09-10-2019, 07:40 PM
19
Re: Democratic Britain? Oh come on!
Well I've always been of the view that universal suffrage based on having a pulse and little else is stupid and wrong interestingly in Greece where it is claimed that democracy was born having a vote was absolutely not available to everyone.IMO having a say in who represents the public should require a formal qualification showing that a person had learned about the pressures and demands being placed on our government plus the underlying principles of the Big Label political parties.
Could it come about? Nah. But a big time reform of Parliment is desperately needed.
Now Marginal Seats ---- later for that!
09-10-2019, 10:22 PM
20
Re: Democratic Britain? Oh come on!
Originally Posted by The Artful Todger
->
Well I've always been of the view that universal suffrage based on having a pulse and little else is stupid and wrong interestingly in Greece where it is claimed that democracy was born having a vote was absolutely not available to everyone.IMO having a say in who represents the public should require a formal qualification showing that a person had learned about the pressures and demands being placed on our government plus the underlying principles of the Big Label political parties.
Could it come about? Nah. But a big time reform of Parliment is desperately needed.
Now Marginal Seats ---- later for that!
And boundary changes ?
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