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Donkeyman
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Donkeyman is offline
Melton,United Kingdom
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10-10-2019, 10:13 PM
21

Re: Special Relationship

Originally Posted by Moscow ->
In 1776 Scotland had been a constituent and keen member of Great Britain for just about 70 years.
I stand corrected Moscow!
Does that mean the Black Watch fought for king george against
the american rebels?
Just looking for a slavery connection lol??
Regards Donkeyman!
PS, were there two king george's
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pathfinder
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scotland
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11-10-2019, 09:56 AM
22

Re: Special Relationship

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
I stand corrected Moscow!
Does that mean the Black Watch fought for king george against
the american rebels?
Just looking for a slavery connection lol??
Regards Donkeyman!
PS, were there two king george's
The Black Watch was formed as police of the highlands after the Jacobite rising that's why they wore the Government Tartan at that time the Kilt was outlawed
Donkeyman
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11-10-2019, 10:44 AM
23

Re: Special Relationship

Originally Posted by pathfinder ->
The Black Watch was formed as police of the highlands after the Jacobite rising that's why they wore the Government Tartan at that time the Kilt was outlawed
I have learnt something else this week, thank you PF!
Is that why scotsmen wear sporrans?
Because their kilts were banned??
I'm finding history so interesting in my dotage!

Regards Donkeyman!
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11-10-2019, 10:59 AM
24

Re: Special Relationship

I really don't understand how this Diplomatic Immunity works. I was under the impression that this 1964 Act to protect Diplomats and their families was brought in as a protection during troubles and conflict. Instead, it's using it to protect those who have committed a crime, such as this one.

It's quite ridiculous. For example, if a Diplomat or any member of his/her family is in the process of murdering someone, then the police can use whatever force is necessary to stop them, including deadly force. But.... the moment the deed has been committed,even if they are caught standing over the body with the weapon, the police are helpless to even arrest them as they are now under the protection of Diplomatic Immunity!!

Have you ever heard of anything so ridiculous?
Donkeyman
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11-10-2019, 11:37 AM
25

Re: Special Relationship

Originally Posted by shropshiregirl ->
I really don't understand how this Diplomatic Immunity works. I was under the impression that this 1964 Act to protect Diplomats and their families was brought in as a protection during troubles and conflict. Instead, it's using it to protect those who have committed a crime, such as this one.

It's quite ridiculous. For example, if a Diplomat or any member of his/her family is in the process of murdering someone, then the police can use whatever force is necessary to stop them, including deadly force. But.... the moment the deed has been committed,even if they are caught standing over the body with the weapon, the police are helpless to even arrest them as they are now under the protection of Diplomatic Immunity!!

Have you ever heard of anything so ridiculous?

Remember novichock SG?

Regards Donkeyman!
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Tedc
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Berkshire, UK
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11-10-2019, 12:29 PM
26

Re: Special Relationship

Originally Posted by shropshiregirl ->
I really don't understand how this Diplomatic Immunity works. I was under the impression that this 1964 Act to protect Diplomats and their families was brought in as a protection during troubles and conflict. Instead, it's using it to protect those who have committed a crime, such as this one.

It's quite ridiculous. For example, if a Diplomat or any member of his/her family is in the process of murdering someone, then the police can use whatever force is necessary to stop them, including deadly force. But.... the moment the deed has been committed,even if they are caught standing over the body with the weapon, the police are helpless to even arrest them as they are now under the protection of Diplomatic Immunity!!

Have you ever heard of anything so ridiculous?
I believe that diplomatic immunity works both ways, SG, and there will be plenty of stories, somewhere on the web, where the UK has done it.

"https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/diplomatic+immunity

Diplomatic Immunity. A principle of International Law that provides foreign diplomats with protection from legal action in the country in which they work.. Established in large part by the Vienna conventions, diplomatic immunity is granted to individuals depending on their rank and the amount of immunity they need to carry out their duties without legal harassment."
Donkeyman
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11-10-2019, 02:33 PM
27

Re: Special Relationship

Originally Posted by Tedc ->
I believe that diplomatic immunity works both ways, SG, and there will be plenty of stories, somewhere on the web, where the UK has done it.

"https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/diplomatic+immunity

Diplomatic Immunity. A principle of International Law that provides foreign diplomats with protection from legal action in the country in which they work.. Established in large part by the Vienna conventions, diplomatic immunity is granted to individuals depending on their rank and the amount of immunity they need to carry out their duties without legal harassment."
Yes l can see the need for it Ted! Imagine being a diplomat in
Iran for instance??
Donkeyman!
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shropshiregirl
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11-10-2019, 02:50 PM
28

Re: Special Relationship

I'm not saying the Diplomatic Immunity is not needed when in a foreign country, I'm also sure that it has been used by the UK in incidents outside of this country. But where does one draw the line. Surely, it wasn't brought about as carte blanche to be unaccountable for crimes committed? or does it cover every crime because if it didn't, authorities in other countries could make up a trumped up charge for any crimes it didn't cover?

It does make it difficult to take out certain crimes from their protection, but then again, of little comfort to devastated family as has happened.

Anyone got any idea?
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11-10-2019, 02:56 PM
29

Re: Special Relationship

Originally Posted by shropshiregirl ->
I'm not saying the Diplomatic Immunity is not needed when in a foreign country, I'm also sure that it has been used by the UK in incidents outside of this country. But where does one draw the line. Surely, it wasn't brought about as carte blanche to be unaccountable for crimes committed? or does it cover every crime because if it didn't, authorities in other countries could make up a trumped up charge for any crimes it didn't cover?

It does make it difficult to take out certain crimes from their protection, but then again, of little comfort to devastated family as has happened.

Anyone got any idea?
In theory, yes, a diplomat can kill someone, refuse to be arrested and return to their host country. In practice, that does not prevent them from being judged. There are multiple cases where diplomats have caused deaths, e.g. in drunk driving. The usual result is that they actually are released due to diplomatic immunity, but afterwards either the country revokes their immunity and they're given to the host country for normal proceedings, or they are judged for the same event back home.

The intent is rather obvious—it is easy for a government to accuse someone of a crime, and we want diplomats (and opposition politicians—parliamentary immunity in many countries works in a similar way) to be protected from detention because of such accusations. It doesn't mean that diplomats are allowed to commit crime—it means that their home country is given a "veto vote" if they wish to do so.

This does give an opportunity to use officials with diplomatic immunity for intentionally breaking the law—espionage and assassinations. The expected response from the host country is not against the person, but against the country which is responsible for the actions of their diplomats. There likely are old historical precedents of military action caused by personal actions of emissaries, but nowadays it would likely result in expelling all diplomats of that country. As usually diplomatic relations and reputation are far more valuable than the career of some official, one could expect that if a diplomat intentionally kills someone without actual orders from their government, then they'd be given up to be punished.
Purwell
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11-10-2019, 08:16 PM
30

Re: Special Relationship

Of course it does depend on the rank of the offender and not every Tom, Dick and Abdul can claim it but that won’t stop people saying that it does.
 
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