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Solasch
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Solasch is offline
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21-09-2019, 11:31 PM
121

Re: LibDems want to revoke Article 50.

Originally Posted by Realist ->
Pretty shoddy response TBH. Essentially no response because the truth is the truth which you can't refute.


Lisbon Treaty

Article 10



4. Political parties at European level contribute to forming European political
awareness and to expressing the will of citizens of the Union


https://assets.publishing.service.go...28848/7310.pdf
Yes, as parties in the HoC should be expressing the will of citizens of the union UK, and not just the will of their partymembers or of their constituents. That is called democracy.
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Solasch
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21-09-2019, 11:59 PM
122

Re: LibDems want to revoke Article 50.

Originally Posted by Realist ->
Pretty shoddy response TBH. Essentially no response because the truth is the truth which you can't refute.
Lisbon Treaty
Article 10

4. Political parties at European level contribute to forming European political
awareness and to expressing the will of citizens of the Union
https://assets.publishing.service.go...28848/7310.pdf
Thank you for bringing it to the attention.

So much for: ruled by the unelected civil servants from brussels

Article 10
1. The functioning of the Union shall be founded on representative democracy.
2. Citizens are directly represented at Union level in the European Parliament.
Member States are represented in the European Council by their Heads of State or
Government and in the Council by their governments, themselves democratically
accountable either to their national Parliaments, or to their citizens.

3. Every citizen shall have the right to participate in the democratic life of the Union.
Decisions shall be taken as openly and as closely as possible to the citizen.
4. Political parties at European level contribute to forming European political
awareness and to expressing the will of citizens of the Union.
Banchory
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22-09-2019, 06:16 AM
123

Re: LibDems want to revoke Article 50.

Originally Posted by Bread ->
Did you believe Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg when he said there would be no EU army as well ?
Not something I ever heard, then again I don’t hang on politicians words as you do.

Whereas you believed Cameron when he intimated the referendum was binding when a simple check of the law confirms the bill stated advisory only the facts relating to European defence ergo any EU army are that the EU can’t implement any common defence policies unless the European Council unanimously approves. This gives the UK or any EU country a veto on any EU defence policies including an EU army

Don’t tell me you believed the fake news on social media
Banchory
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22-09-2019, 06:26 AM
124

Re: LibDems want to revoke Article 50.

Originally Posted by Realist ->
Pretty shoddy response TBH. Essentially no response because the truth is the truth which you can't refute.


Lisbon Treaty

Article 10



4. Political parties at European level contribute to forming European political
awareness and to expressing the will of citizens of the Union


https://assets.publishing.service.go...28848/7310.pdf
A classic case of taking an isolated selective quotation and attempting to misrepresent its intention

However your quote pretty much describes what MEP’s do. It doesn’t mean the abolishment of political parties or national governments

You’ve either not read the Lisbon Treaty, don’t understand it or are seeking to make it fit your own prejudices

The Lisbon Treaty has become the fake news scaremongering tool of desperate leavers
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Bread
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22-09-2019, 07:26 AM
125

Re: LibDems want to revoke Article 50.

Originally Posted by Banchory ->
Not something I ever heard, then again I don’t hang on politicians words as you do.

Whereas you believed Cameron when he intimated the referendum was binding when a simple check of the law confirms the bill stated advisory only the facts relating to European defence ergo any EU army are that the EU can’t implement any common defence policies unless the European Council unanimously approves. This gives the UK or any EU country a veto on any EU defence policies including an EU army

Don’t tell me you believed the fake news on social media

Cameron didn't say it was legally binding at all that's you making things up. He said whatever decision the people make, the government would accept and implement.

All referendums are advisory by the way. Do you honestly believe that 30 billion people turned up just to take part in a survey ? Oh yes, if course you do because your a lying undemocratic unliberal follower of Jo Swinsons lying hypocrite party.

Do you honestly believe there will be a national veto on the EU Army ? Listen to failed minister Ursula Von De Leyens speech where she explicitly states national vetoes will be replaced with QMV as they have been over the past 20 years. Yeah remainers knew all along what they were voting for (rolls eyes) just listen to Clegg telling Farage it would never happen in their interview with Nick Ferrari in the lead up to the referendum ....

30 million people turned out for a survey... cuckoo cuckoo

It was the lib dems who campaigned for an eu referendum since 2008 and look at them now. Broken principles just like yours.
Donkeyman
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22-09-2019, 10:00 AM
126

Re: LibDems want to revoke Article 50.

30 million Bread!!!
Donkeyman!
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Bread
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22-09-2019, 10:23 AM
127

Re: LibDems want to revoke Article 50.

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
30 million Bread!!!
Donkeyman!

Ha ha corrected.

Thanks DM predictive text strikes again ...
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Solasch
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22-09-2019, 11:38 AM
128

Re: LibDems want to revoke Article 50.

Originally Posted by Banchory ->
Not something I ever heard, then again I don’t hang on politicians words as you do.

Whereas you believed Cameron when he intimated the referendum was binding when a simple check of the law confirms the bill stated advisory only the facts relating to European defence ergo any EU army are that the EU can’t implement any common defence policies unless the European Council unanimously approves. This gives the UK or any EU country a veto on any EU defence policies including an EU army

Don’t tell me you believed the fake news on social media
That age-old question has long since been answered, even on this forum. https://www.theweek.co.uk/98495/fact...ean-super-army

However, there is close cooperation between european armies that the UK prays to be part of.

As for the referendum, see briefing paper for your mps.


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Banchory
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22-09-2019, 11:44 AM
129

Re: LibDems want to revoke Article 50.

Originally Posted by Bread ->
Cameron didn't say it was legally binding at all that's you making things up. He said whatever decision the people make, the government would accept and implement.

All referendums are advisory by the way. Do you honestly believe that 30 billion people turned up just to take part in a survey ? Oh yes, if course you do because your a lying undemocratic unliberal follower of Jo Swinsons lying hypocrite party.

Do you honestly believe there will be a national veto on the EU Army ? Listen to failed minister Ursula Von De Leyens speech where she explicitly states national vetoes will be replaced with QMV as they have been over the past 20 years. Yeah remainers knew all along what they were voting for (rolls eyes) just listen to Clegg telling Farage it would never happen in their interview with Nick Ferrari in the lead up to the referendum ....

30 million people turned out for a survey... cuckoo cuckoo

It was the lib dems who campaigned for an eu referendum since 2008 and look at them now. Broken principles just like yours.
Yes Cameron did use those words but You’ve taken a step forward in accepting the referendum to leave the EU was only advisory which you have previously not understood.

Unfortunately your understanding of UK referendums is still poor an all referendums are not advisory. The referendum on the Parliamentary voting system which was held on Thursday 5 May 2011 certainly wasn’t advisory and the decision was binding as set out in the relevant parliamentary bill

Why do you think they turned out for a survey? They turned out for a referendum that was advisory and the result of which the government were obliged to take into consideration when determining policy which is what TM did. There is nothing in the bill requiring MP’s to be beholding to the same obligation which is why they are free to exercise their own judgement

I read the bill before voting and knew it was only advisory but had no idea how it would turn out or what the Government or Parliament would do if the result was to leave

You obviously did not know it was advisory so wasn’t necessarily a done deal and it would appear that most leavers on this forum didn’t either

Read the Lisbon Treaty, not the fake news circulating on social media and pro leave websites.
WMV doesn’t apply to laws about security and defence which require unanimous approval by the European Council. Anyway the European Commission can’t propose any laws about security and defence and it certainly can’t implement any common defence policies without the European Council unanimously approving them

That the Lisbon Treaty commits the UK or any other E.U. country to an EU army is just leavers Project Fear fake news propaganda

And it seems you believe it
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Solasch
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Solasch is offline
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22-09-2019, 11:59 AM
130

Re: LibDems want to revoke Article 50.

Originally Posted by Banchory ->
Read the Lisbon Treaty, not the fake news circulating on social media and pro leave websites.
WMV doesn’t apply to laws about security and defence which require unanimous approval by the European Council. Anyway the European Commission can’t propose any laws about security and defence and it certainly can’t implement any common defence policies without the European Council unanimously approving them

That the Lisbon Treaty commits the UK or any other E.U. country to an EU army is just leavers Project Fear fake news propaganda

And it seems you believe it
Article 46(6)
6. The decisions and recommendations of the Council within the framework of permanent structured cooperation, other than those provided for in paragraphs 2 to 5, shall be adopted by unanimity. For the purposes of this paragraph, unanimity shall be constituted by the votes of the representatives of the participating Member States only.
 
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