16-12-2019, 12:05 PM
21
Re: Cross Dressing
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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I can totally understand that some people are born on a gender spectrum where we can be more towards one gender than another. I can understand that they want to live their life as another gender. What I do not understand is the part clothing plays in this. Clothing is just an artificial social construction. Hair length and make up and high heels are all artificial concepts of male/female differences. Because at one point we all had the same hair save that women did not have facial hair. We all wore similar clothes to protect us from the elements. There were no stockings, nail varnish and lipstick.
Can someone explain how you become a man/woman by wearing a particular garment? Because IMO you are who you are without all these props.
It would seem that most transgender people crave acceptance by others as much as they crave it themselves hence their attempts to outwardly change their appearance. Surely, if they think have been born in the wrong body it's just a state of mind in the same way that a slim woman looks in the mirror and sees a fat person staring back.
As well as dressing up like a woman do they have maternal instincts only a woman and mother could have. Why have breasts? Because they will never have the useful purpose of feeding a child, they would be simply 'Cosmetic' and not really necessary if your mind was made up that you are in the wrong body. I can have a horn attached to my head, but it doesn't make me a Rhino....My guess is, whatever gender they decided to be, they will never be happy, and I doubt that even with the acceptance of society they will still be in limbo of just who they really are...
I do not have issues with anyone who decides they are in the wrong body, and as I said in my opening post, I have the greatest of respect for those that chose to make the alterations, but my issue is; why is it so important to them that I should accept the situation and just like the 'Elephant in the room' ignore them as if everything was hunky dorey....Just get on with it, but don't ask me not to stare and think it's odd, and if the truth is known, so do many others but are too frightened to mention it for fear of being called a homophobic etc....Just like people from other countries, it doesn't make us racist for wanting to discuss them.
16-12-2019, 12:27 PM
22
Re: Cross Dressing
Originally Posted by Savvy
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It is none of my business how people choose to define their gender. Referring to Jenner as a "cross-dresser" shows a deep misunderstanding of the concept of sexual identity.
Are we all in fear of mentioning the unmentionable for fear of being called a homophobe, racist etc. Words invented to subdue disagreement and avoid discussion.
Isn't that the problem with society these days? Keep your head down and let society be manipulated by the media and governments? The world is turning into the unrecognisable place that it is because we sit back and do nothing and allow laws to be made and minority groups to decide the direction of the future.
And how can the ordinary person ever hope to understand the workings of a disturbed mind?
16-12-2019, 01:15 PM
23
Re: Cross Dressing
Originally Posted by OldGreyFox
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So should we be excluded from ever mentioning it Savvy?Are we all in fear of mentioning the unmentionable for fear of being called a homophobe, racist etc. Words invented to subdue disagreement and avoid discussion.
Isn't that the problem with society these days? Keep your head down and let society be manipulated by the media and governments? The world is turning into the unrecognisable place that it is because we sit back and do nothing and allow laws to be made and minority groups to decide the direction of the future.
And how can the ordinary person ever hope to understand the workings of a disturbed mind?
I do accept that people want to change the sexual bits that they were born with, that's there choice,but I will never think of it as normal because in my mind women are born with a vagina men are born with a penis. If someone is born with both then that to me is a freak of nature and I can understand they would want to be one gender or the other. All this 'choosing' what gender to be is madness and it seems so many are jumping on the bandwagon so to speak
I think it would be better to work on the persons mental health and teach them how to be accepting of the gender and the sexual organs they were born with.
I would question after the operations are they TRULY any happier. I read there are so many regretting the operations an that speaks volumes to me.
The human species is bonkers and getting more bonkers by the day.
16-12-2019, 01:22 PM
24
Re: Cross Dressing
Interesting discussion.I think the person deeply feels they are a girl or a boy !, they feel more girly or feminine yet have the gender of a Male. Or a child in a girls body feels more Male or boy . It's hard to explain because it's not us . I dont think we knew of these things years ago and feelings were kept down and feared.
I do think the world has gone silly though asking kids if they feel ok about their bodies and showing more films and books and talking too much about gender issues .
I know a sweet girl of 18 who had boyfriends yet now is with a 16 year old girl in a lesbian relationship. I think she is because she can if you get my meaning . Now her 14 year old brother is saying he is gay !
Had anyone asked me as a young teenager I would have said I love being a girl and want to marry a man
Yes a strange world and I'm glad I'm old !
16-12-2019, 01:26 PM
25
Re: Cross Dressing
Originally Posted by susan m
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Interesting discussion. I think the person deeply feels they are a girl or a boy !, they feel more girly or feminine yet have the gender of a Male. Or a child in a girls body feels more Male or boy . It's hard to explain because it's not us . I dont think we knew of these things years ago and feelings were kept down and feared.
I do think the world has gone silly though asking kids if they feel ok about their bodies and showing more films and books and talking too much about gender issues .
I know a sweet girl of 18 who had boyfriends yet now is with a 16 year old girl in a lesbian relationship. I think she is because she can if you get my meaning . Now her 14 year old brother is saying he is gay !
Had anyone asked me as a young teenager I would have said I love being a girl and want to marry a man
Yes a strange world and I'm glad I'm old !
In the words of an old man I heard talking at a bus stop many years ago "I'm glad I'm on my way out and not on my way in"
wonder what his issues with the world were, god knows what he would think now LOL
16-12-2019, 11:54 PM
27
Re: Cross Dressing
Originally Posted by Muddy
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What I find difficult to understand is that Bruce Jenner had six children by three different wives before he decided he was really a woman .
I agree.
You'd have thought if he always felt like a woman, he would fancy men more, wouldn't you?
Perhaps he is a Bi-Trans.
Gawd, is there such a thing even?
*
Looking at these things from another angle as well, and I'm sorry if it offends, but I don't think I could have accepted it if my Dad (or Mum) had surgery and changed so dramatically.
I think I would feel unbelievably sad, because it would feel like I had lost the people I had known and loved all my life.
17-12-2019, 12:05 AM
28
Re: Cross Dressing
Originally Posted by susan m
->
Interesting discussion. I think the person deeply feels they are a girl or a boy !, they feel more girly or feminine yet have the gender of a Male. Or a child in a girls body feels more Male or boy . It's hard to explain because it's not us . I dont think we knew of these things years ago and feelings were kept down and feared.
I do think the world has gone silly though asking kids if they feel ok about their bodies and showing more films and books and talking too much about gender issues .
I know a sweet girl of 18 who had boyfriends yet now is with a 16 year old girl in a lesbian relationship. I think she is because she can if you get my meaning . Now her 14 year old brother is saying he is gay !
Had anyone asked me as a young teenager I would have said I love being a girl and want to marry a man
Yes a strange world and I'm glad I'm old !
When I was a child I found the sexual revolution deeply disturbing. I think all the sexual imagery polluted our normal sexual development so we grew up thinking that sex, sex, sex was normal. So instead of a natural transfer to adulthood you are in a sense interfered with. I have friends who subsequently slept around thinking that was love and intimacy. That was the norm. They were hurt and I think my generation (generation X) was let down in so many ways. Free love was a new thing that had never happened before. Nobody thought of the effect on kids.
A lot of people here were already teens during that era but these things affect kids. Talking about adult issues should be only for adults who are fully sexually developed. I see the current climate as a form of child abuse. Kids should be allowed to mature physically before they have to deal with decisions affecting their sexuality. I find it hard to believe that nobody has considered the ethics of what they are doing by going into schools and asking children to discuss these matters before they are fully developed. I bet that in future years some of these children will see themselves as victims of society. That society shaped their choices rather than giving them real choice.
17-12-2019, 09:58 AM
29
Re: Cross Dressing
Originally Posted by AnnieS
->
I think if people had started to ask us as kids whether we felt male or female then that would have addled all our brains. When I was a child I found the sexual revolution deeply disturbing. I think all the sexual imagery polluted our normal sexual development so we grew up thinking that sex, sex, sex was normal. So instead of a natural transfer to adulthood you are in a sense interfered with. I have friends who subsequently slept around thinking that was love and intimacy. That was the norm. They were hurt and I think my generation (generation X) was let down in so many ways. Free love was a new thing that had never happened before. Nobody thought of the effect on kids.
A lot of people here were already teens during that era but these things affect kids. Talking about adult issues should be only for adults who are fully sexually developed. I see the current climate as a form of child abuse. Kids should be allowed to mature physically before they have to deal with decisions affecting their sexuality. I find it hard to believe that nobody has considered the ethics of what they are doing by going into schools and asking children to discuss these matters before they are fully developed. I bet that in future years some of these children will see themselves as victims of society. That society shaped their choices rather than giving them real choice.
19-12-2019, 10:31 AM
30
Re: Cross Dressing
Originally Posted by OldGreyFox
->
So should we be excluded from ever mentioning it Savvy?Are we all in fear of mentioning the unmentionable for fear of being called a homophobe, racist etc. Words invented to subdue disagreement and avoid discussion.
Isn't that the problem with society these days? Keep your head down and let society be manipulated by the media and governments? The world is turning into the unrecognisable place that it is because we sit back and do nothing and allow laws to be made and minority groups to decide the direction of the future.
And how can the ordinary person ever hope to understand the workings of a disturbed mind?
This is a nail in the coffin of free speech .
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...sgender-tweets
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