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06-09-2019, 05:43 PM
111

Re: Boris climbs down.

Originally Posted by shropshiregirl ->
Get your cup of tea fellow posters, and have a look at this excellent article by Allister Heath in the Telegraph. Certainly cheers one up!

Quote

Despite Wednesday’s defeat, the PM will eventually get his election.

The biggest difference, of course, is that 31 years after Margaret Thatcher launched the modern Eurosceptic movement with her Bruges speech, her side has finally triumphed. Following the expulsion of the 21 most committed Remainers, Eurosceptics are in almost full control of the Tory party for the first time since the Fifties. If Boris Johnson’s massive, historic bet pays off - by no means certain - he will win the general election by scooping up a fresh demographic attracted by his domestic and European policies. He will then engineer a real Brexit, ensuring the period between 1973 and 2019 is remembered as a historical curiosity, an aberrant era during which the UK was conned into giving up its self-government.

As such, Remainers’ triumphalism these past two days is misplaced. Their hatred of Boris Johnson and his advisor, Dominic Cummings, their inability to look outside of the Westminster bubble and their obsession with the minuitiae of process is blinding them to the true state of play. The Remainers may still win in the end, of course, but only if Jeremy Corbyn becomes Prime Minister, laying waste to everything else many of them believe in.

Right now, Johnson and Cummings are still on a path to success, even if they have had to recalibrate their journey several times as obstacles have emerged. The situation is tense, the PM is feeling the pressure and much of the Cabinet is in a state of shock. But Boris hasn’t been ‘’humiliated’’, He hasn’t been ‘’wrong-footed’’.

The semi-prorogation didn’t ‘’backfire’’. It flushed out his hardcore opponents and allowed him to expel them. He knew he would have to do something drastic at some stage and there was no way that those committed to derailing his plans would ever have been allowed to stand under Tory colours at the election. His party was already split de facto, if not de jure, he was always leading a minority government in all but name. The sackings merely formalised this.

Part of the misunderstanding is that Remainers still see themselves as members of the natural governing class, with the Brexiteers as insolent interlopers. Such ultra-Remainers are so blinded by credentialism, by their hero-worship of the likes of Kenneth Clarke - who, as chancellor, helped John Major gift power to Tony Blair - that they cannot understand why their removal actually helps Johnson.

They see the purge of their favourite Tories as a terrible loss of talent, a cataclysmic blow to the credibility of the party, its final death even, yet to Leave voters, losing anti-Brexit irreconcilables, especially overrated establishment figures, is a huge step in the right direction and proof of Boris’s seriousness.

In any case, the Prime Minister needs a party with a single message: every candidate will have to sign up to his plans. This will be the only way that he can fight off the Brexit Party. If he wins, perhaps with a slender majority, Johnson will need to be able to count on every one of his MPs.

In his first few hours after Johnson called for an election, when it became clear that MPs would seize control of Parliament, Remaiiners were elated: they thought they had crippled their enemy.

But they are now realising, to their horror, that their victory may be ephemeral. The MPs’ vote may not really matter; the PM is ready for an election, and he has in fact guaranteed one by making it clear that he doesn’t have a technical majority any longer. Paradoxically, weakness is strength for Boris. He might have preferred to go to the polls after Brexit, but the present path comes with its own advantages.

Hence Labour’s dithering, and the too-clever-by-half plan by some to try to outfox Johnson by delaying any vote to November or December. Combined with Parliament’s power grab, this could theoretically prevent Brexit on October 31, force Johnson to break his promise and ensure his destruction with the help of a resurgent Brexit Party.

It won’t work: Labour will be forced to blink first. Such a scheming implies Corbyn believes Johnson would win on October 15 - not a good look, as they say on Twitter. Delaying the election for months will prolong the life of a useless, unworkable, anarchical Parliament. The Government would relentlessly tell voters that Labour and the LibDems are blocking any progress and have decided to pay MPs not to work, reinforcing the Boris vs the establishment narrative.

Johnson may not get the blame for delaying Brexit either. Tory supporters and Leave voters increasingly hold his opponents responsible for the chaos, and that is even before he spends months repeating his mantra that Corbyn is a coward for refusing to face the electorate. The PM’s description of the Leader of the Opposition as a ‘’chlorinated chicken’’ is a harbinger of things to come. Labour can’t go on refusing an election for much longer.

Last but not least, engineering a delay in Brexit would simply encourage the Government to go for broke. If they were to back a no-deal Brexit, Nigel Farage would step aside and the Leave vote would unite. I am sure those in No 10 genuinely and rightly want a deal. But they may not have a choice if furious voters begin to turn to the Brexit Party again. Do the Remainers really want to goad Downing Street in this way?

Johnson’s gamble was breathtaking in its ambition: he would take over a fatally divided Tory party with no majority, forcibly reform it in his image and gain a pro-Brexit majority. For all of the madness of the past few days, I’m still predicting that he will pull it off.

Unquote

So there you go folks. There’s still a plan!!! The world is still turning, and BREXIT is still a great possibility.

What on earth is Corbyn going to talk about at the labour party conference ?

seems cummings does have the upper hand after all - just watch labour get booed by their own membership and their own conference
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06-09-2019, 07:02 PM
112

Re: Boris climbs down.

Originally Posted by JBR ->
A far better solution would be for Boris and Nigel to come to some arrangement regarding where to stand. It could be quite simple.

The mere presence of the BrExit party as an available option is enough to win the election.

Leavers will have 2 viable choices, Tories or BrExit Party and they should choose which ever one is the most tactical for their constituency.

If Tories never do well in the constituency then vote BrExit party or vote another tactical way. Whatever keeps Labour and Lib Dems out.


Remember also that there did not exist a BrExit party at the last election. The referendum had already been done so many people reverted back to normal voting patterns and didn't feel the need to vote UKIP.

This GE will be different. Leavers are only concerned with getting a government committed to getting BrExit through properly. A combined government of both Tories and BrExit Party will do the trick nicely.

You can now see the brilliance of Johnson in making his MPs declare their positions at the recent votes resulting him then being able to rid government of 21 traitorous idiots who had no intention of honouring the will of the people and the referendum result.

Now when we get a Tory/BP coalition government there will be a significant majority of Leaver MPs in the house to push through any BrExit bills.

So bring on the election and let's get it done.
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06-09-2019, 07:51 PM
113

Re: Boris climbs down.

Originally Posted by Realist ->
The mere presence of the BrExit party as an available option is enough to win the election.

Leavers will have 2 viable choices, Tories or BrExit Party and they should choose which ever one is the most tactical for their constituency.

If Tories never do well in the constituency then vote BrExit party or vote another tactical way. Whatever keeps Labour and Lib Dems out.


Remember also that there did not exist a BrExit party at the last election. The referendum had already been done so many people reverted back to normal voting patterns and didn't feel the need to vote UKIP.

This GE will be different. Leavers are only concerned with getting a government committed to getting BrExit through properly. A combined government of both Tories and BrExit Party will do the trick nicely.

You can now see the brilliance of Johnson in making his MPs declare their positions at the recent votes resulting him then being able to rid government of 21 traitorous idiots who had no intention of honouring the will of the people and the referendum result.

Now when we get a Tory/BP coalition government there will be a significant majority of Leaver MPs in the house to push through any BrExit bills.

So bring on the election and let's get it done.
Exactly why Compo has done a flip-flop and insists that he doesn't want a GE! He knows he'll lose.
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06-09-2019, 08:03 PM
114

Re: Boris climbs down.

Originally Posted by JBR ->
Exactly why Compo has done a flip-flop and insists that he doesn't want a GE! He knows he'll lose.
Correct

As SG's article rightly said, Remainiacs have played right into Boris's hands. He's a clever chappy our Boris.
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06-09-2019, 08:51 PM
115

Re: Boris climbs down.

Originally Posted by shropshiregirl ->
Without a doubt, No Deal.
Then why press for a GE. If you're so confident let it go it's natural course.
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06-09-2019, 09:08 PM
116

Re: Boris climbs down.

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
I misread Machiavelli as Mussolini which on second thoughts is pretty apt.
Quite right AnnieS

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06-09-2019, 11:57 PM
117

Re: Boris climbs down.

Is it starting to dawn on the population that Brexit is a pipe dream? It will never happen in any meaningful way will it? The Clown Prince is just that.

All this bickering is pointless, it ain't going to happen, is it? Isn't a General Election just rearranging the deck chairs?

I am sure the world will watch with interest, better than anything on TV. Three years have passed and Britain is no closer to leaving.

Perhaps a more Realistic scheme to leave the EU would be to become the 51st State of the United States of America and really join the big boys. It would make a change from being the 28th state of the United States of Europe.
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07-09-2019, 09:43 AM
118

Re: Boris climbs down.

Perhaps a more Realistic scheme to leave the EU would be to become the 51st State of the United States of America and really join the big boys. It would make a change from being the 28th state of the United States of Europe.[/QUOTE]

This is more likely to happen than you think.
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07-09-2019, 10:01 AM
119

Re: Boris climbs down.

Originally Posted by Bruce ->
Is it starting to dawn on the population that Brexit is a pipe dream? It will never happen in any meaningful way will it? The Clown Prince is just that.

All this bickering is pointless, it ain't going to happen, is it? Isn't a General Election just rearranging the deck chairs?

I am sure the world will watch with interest, better than anything on TV. Three years have passed and Britain is no closer to leaving.

Perhaps a more Realistic scheme to leave the EU would be to become the 51st State of the United States of America and really join the big boys. It would make a change from being the 28th state of the United States of Europe.
Good heavens, how things change.

Eighty years ago, your countrymen and mine were not so defeatist, and thank God for that. We'd have been subjugated by the Fourth Reich, and Australia by Japan.

Yes, we can leave the EU.

It will require the will of the people to be accepted and that will happen at the next general election, whenever that eventually comes.

Alongside that will come the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the traitors in our midst.

Then, some years later, the EU experiment will come crumbling into pieces as other countries see that they can obtain their freedom.
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07-09-2019, 10:13 AM
120

Re: Boris climbs down.

Originally Posted by jbr ->
good heavens, how things change.

Eighty years ago, your countrymen and mine were not so defeatist, and thank god for that. We'd have been subjugated by the fourth reich, and australia by japan.

Yes, we can leave the eu.

It will require the will of the people to be accepted and that will happen at the next general election, whenever that eventually comes.

Alongside that will come the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the traitors in our midst.

Then, some years later, the eu experiment will come crumbling into pieces as other countries see that they can obtain their freedom.
 
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