17-11-2018, 09:33 AM
121
Re: Are we heading for a fresh referendum???
Originally Posted by Aerolor
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I did not vote to leave the EU - see my post previous to this one. My heart sank when I heard the vote result. I think this country should now get behind Theresa May and appreciate what she is trying to do instead of bludgeoning her. I think she could do a decent job of damage limitation if folks in our political arena let her get on with it instead of arguing and pushing for positions to advance their careers.
From what's coming out now previous brexit ministers have done their best but been ignored and thwarted at every turn by May and her civil servants. The biggest problem with brexit has been people trying to keep us in and I'm afraid I blame the remainers for that the vocal ones egging her on to keep us in.
17-11-2018, 10:45 AM
122
Re: Are we heading for a fresh referendum???
Originally Posted by Twink55
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I would like to thank Aerolor & AnnieS for their intelligent posts on this thread.Both voted to remain, yet accepted the Leave vote and are now doing what we should all be doing.....working together to get the best deal we can!
We all have different ideas on Brexit , but there is no point in expecting all that we want, because the EU want to do the same, so we can both only get some of what we want if we want a deal.( most experts will say that a "No Deal" will be financially far worse )
Brexit is just like a divorce! If we just split without any negotiated agreement everybody will suffer... so there needs to be some give and take from both sides.
Divorce affects the whole family, just as Brexit affects the whole country, and the only way to get the best result is to work together for everybody, rather than both sides going into further battle.
Most experts are trying to assure us that a 'no deal' will be 'financially far worse'. Far worse for whom? Big businessmen? May's husband?
The only real penalty to leaving without a deal will be that we shall have to trade under WTO rules, at least for a time. So what? Trade will still continue, and we shall be able to create our own deals with countries all over the world to our mutual benefit AND without having to pay the EU through the nose for doing so.
No. Brexit is not just like a divorce. I see it as an individual resigning his/her membership of a club. You give a notification period, pay your membership fees up to the date you leave, and then you just leave without any penalties. You don't have to agree not to join any other clubs, you don't have to hand over your house or your job, and you don't have to suffer threats and demands.
Brexit is simply a country electing to leave an empire, just as many countries around the world left the British Empire. If any punitive payments were made in those cases, it would have been the British paying the newly independent countries much money presumably 'to help get them started'.
The EU has shown itself to be a power-hungry dictatorship and I can never see myself agreeing to anything they demand.
17-11-2018, 01:02 PM
123
Re: Are we heading for a fresh referendum???
Originally Posted by JBR
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I'm surprised that you have been taken in, Twink.Most experts are trying to assure us that a 'no deal' will be 'financially far worse'. Far worse for whom? Big businessmen? May's husband?
The only real penalty to leaving without a deal will be that we shall have to trade under WTO rules, at least for a time. So what? Trade will still continue, and we shall be able to create our own deals with countries all over the world to our mutual benefit AND without having to pay the EU through the nose for doing so.
No. Brexit is not just like a divorce. I see it as an individual resigning his/her membership of a club. You give a notification period, pay your membership fees up to the date you leave, and then you just leave without any penalties. You don't have to agree not to join any other clubs, you don't have to hand over your house or your job, and you don't have to suffer threats and demands.
Brexit is simply a country electing to leave an empire, just as many countries around the world left the British Empire. If any punitive payments were made in those cases, it would have been the British paying the newly independent countries much money presumably 'to help get them started'.
The EU has shown itself to be a power-hungry dictatorship and I can never see myself agreeing to anything they demand.
As long as we are not a member I don't think they can change anything that isn't in the leaving agreement, so we will not be included in becoming a State of Europe. I voted leave because that was something I didn't want to be part of.Don't forget that if the wealthy of this country suffer, we all do, because they will remove businesses, that provide jobs, to another European country.
Taking their business elsewhere will mean a loss of taxes paid in Britain, so less money to provide homes and benefits for the needy....... I am not talking about those who fraudulently take benefits, but those in genuine need.
Wealthy people probably have health insurance for private care, but they still have to pay NI towards the NHS.
Setting up new world trade agreements will take time, and considering how long it has taken to leave the EU & that time may be too long for those who can't provide for themselves.
I just feel that leaving without a deal will be a bad move & nobody has yet convinced me that it wouldn't.
17-11-2018, 01:04 PM
124
Re: Are we heading for a fresh referendum???
Originally Posted by Julie1962
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I think a lot of us have tried to get behind her, I was quite complimentary of her for ages, course now I see what she was doing I want to be behind her for a completely different reason wearing big big boots. From what's coming out now previous brexit ministers have done their best but been ignored and thwarted at every turn by May and her civil servants. The biggest problem with brexit has been people trying to keep us in and I'm afraid I blame the remainers for that the vocal ones egging her on to keep us in.
The whole process should not have been initiated without first finding out what is possible and planning a strategy.
17-11-2018, 01:06 PM
125
Re: Are we heading for a fresh referendum???
Originally Posted by Twink55
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I just feel that leaving without a deal will be a bad move & nobody has yet convinced me that it wouldn't.
17-11-2018, 01:17 PM
126
Re: Are we heading for a fresh referendum???
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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The proposal does not keep us in. It is not what I wanted but I just want them to agree on something so that we can all move on. At least this arrangement will protect jobs & businesses and give security to both Brits abroad and EU citizens here.The whole process should not have been initiated without first finding out what is possible and planning a strategy.
17-11-2018, 01:27 PM
127
Re: Are we heading for a fresh referendum???
Originally Posted by Julie1962
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I actually said people trying to keep us in. I'm afraid including you Annie. Who have argued until blue that Brexit is bad, if everyone had got behind brexit or at least accepted the referendum result may would have had to have behaved differently.
As I have said I wanted us to stay and help reform it and to negotiate a better deal for Britain. Many here think we are incapable of that. But for some reason think we are more than capable of going it alone...
I have no influence on the outcome and it doesn't matter to the process what I think, but backing a no deal is something I will never do. There is no "clean break". That was clear from the start. Even if we did crash out there is still no "clean break".
17-11-2018, 01:59 PM
128
Re: Are we heading for a fresh referendum???
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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The proposal does not keep us in. It is not what I wanted but I just want them to agree on something so that we can all move on. At least this arrangement will protect jobs & businesses and give security to both Brits abroad and EU citizens here.The whole process should not have been initiated without first finding out what is possible and planning a strategy.
17-11-2018, 02:01 PM
129
Re: Are we heading for a fresh referendum???
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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Julie voting remain means that remain voters wanted to stay in the EU. I haven't changed my mind. No surprises there. Why would I want us to be worse off and harm business, jobs and the flow of goods and services? As I have said I wanted us to stay and help reform it and to negotiate a better deal for Britain. Many here think we are incapable of that. But for some reason think we are more than capable of going it alone...
I have no influence on the outcome and it doesn't matter to the process what I think, but backing a no deal is something I will never do. There is no "clean break". That was clear from the start. Even if we did crash out there is still no "clean break".
17-11-2018, 02:02 PM
130
Re: Are we heading for a fresh referendum???
We will be in the same position if we crash out Judd. We still have to deal with them on their terms and have no say in the matter. This way we have a legal framework and business certainty. The deal is not to stay in indefinitely that's just the way it's being interpreted by some.|
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