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04-02-2021, 02:38 PM
11

Re: Bad deal for fishing !!

Originally Posted by Percy Vere ->
Just a few days ago, Jersey joined Guernsey in signing a deal with the French regarding access to their fishing waters. I can see in a few months times, these islands regretting their actions because the French will have taken everything there is to be taken.
That's not quite true unless you have some evidence I haven't seen?
AFAIK there is a transitional arrangement which is valid only until the end of April this year, says this from just a few days ago:

"Both parties have agreed to transitional arrangements that formalise an amnesty period in which those vessels that had held Granville Bay Area permits to fish Jersey waters before the provisional application of the Trade and Cooperation Agreement (TCA) will continue to have access to Jersey waters until the end of April 2021."
https://thefishingdaily.com/featured...-french-boats/
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04-02-2021, 02:54 PM
12

Re: Bad deal for fishing !!

Originally Posted by Zaphod ->
That is simply wrong and makes no sense.

Firstly because what we produce ourselves we can surely buy ourselves if the appetite for it is there; if we're not buying from the EU now (we were exporting remember, not importing) then why would we buy in the future?
Secondly (again remembering that we were exporting) how on earth are France (or indeed anyone else) going to be handed Welsh or Scottish produce that can only legally be caught by British vessels in British waters?
They aren't, as I'm sure you can understand.



Re: the bolded bit - it looks like you're completely missing the point.
The EU cannot get fresh quantities of this anywhere else (as you correctly point out, they are ours) so EU processors and consumers suffer because there is nothing for them to process or to buy.
I've posted evidence of this before & frankly CBA to hunt if nobody's going to bother reading it or accepting it.
The French couldn't meet demand in the past and they certainly can't now; a few miserable scallops alone do not make up for the huge diversity of produce which we used to export to them and which can only come from our own waters.
Again it is the EU's processors and consumers suffering too.




We started with the deal agreed in December.

We could all contemplate a huge variety of options with varying degrees of likelihood and possibility.
I will politely suggest that instead of looking at one area and digging your heels in prematurely you consider the broader picture as well as the fact that governmental discussion and planning relating to all things fishing-related is ongoing.

it makes perfect sense

If we destroy our own shellfish industry by letting the die a death because they just don't make enough money in the UK economy (according to you), then we buy them from France instead, who then get all the quota for shellfish in UK waters within the 6 mile zone. Or we ban the French shellfish boats then we have to buy from abroad instead of catching what's under our feet.
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04-02-2021, 03:24 PM
13

Re: Bad deal for fishing !!

Originally Posted by Bread ->
it makes perfect sense

If we destroy our own shellfish industry by letting the die a death because they just don't make enough money in the UK economy (according to you), then we buy them from France instead, who then get all the quota for shellfish in UK waters within the 6 mile zone. Or we ban the French shellfish boats then we have to buy from abroad instead of catching what's under our feet.
If you're going to continue to make stuff up there is no point trying to correct you.
Please stop making up your own arguments when they have no basis in truth.



French ships cannot fish within our 6 mile zone.
The rules are very clear.
http://brexitlegalguide.co.uk/fisheries-3/

The French shellfish boats are already banned except for the two voisinage agreements as listed in that legal text.

Again; we do not buy what these boats catch.
That's why it was exported.
We do not need to import anything which we do not buy.

See if you can give one good reason why the principles of supply and demand cannot apply here as they do in most things and why we cannot have a smaller but sustainable industry primarily supplying our own homegrown requirements?
Surely that is better for the environment too.
Win win then.

Our dairy and livestock farmers don't produce milk or beef they can't sell.
In fact no business produces goods which there is no market for.
You might not like it but the case of these fisherman is no different.
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04-02-2021, 04:11 PM
14

Re: Bad deal for fishing !!

Originally Posted by Bread ->
If I was Boris now, I would accept tarrifs and rip up the trade deal. Its worthless as it does not give businesses any certainty as we have found out over the past few weeks.
I'm not in a position to know whether shellfish are important economically to this country, but I am aware that the EU are taking every advantage of this 'deal' to benefit themselves at little or no benefit to us.

I assume that the EU are still translating the deal into their 27 or more languages before bothering to even consider agreeing it. As we are already quite sure of how the land lies, perhaps we could pre-empt them and reject it now, saving them the bother of doing so.

Many are saying that we don't need the EU, or that they need us more than we need them, so why are we procrastinating?
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04-02-2021, 04:17 PM
15

Re: Bad deal for fishing !!

Originally Posted by JBR ->
I'm not in a position to know whether shellfish are important economically to this country, but I am aware that the EU are taking every advantage of this 'deal' to benefit themselves at little or no benefit to us.

I assume that the EU are still translating the deal into their 27 or more languages before bothering to even consider agreeing it. As we are already quite sure of how the land lies, perhaps we could pre-empt them and reject it now, saving them the bother of doing so.

Many are saying that we don't need the EU, or that they need us more than we need them, so why are we procrastinating?
"We" aren't.
An odd few disillusioned and/or extremist types are muck-raking but meantime most reasonable folk are just getting on with it and minding their own business while the dust settles.

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04-02-2021, 04:19 PM
16

Re: Bad deal for fishing !!

Originally Posted by Zaphod ->
That's not quite true unless you have some evidence I haven't seen?
AFAIK there is a transitional arrangement which is valid only until the end of April this year, says this from just a few days ago:

"Both parties have agreed to transitional arrangements that formalise an amnesty period in which those vessels that had held Granville Bay Area permits to fish Jersey waters before the provisional application of the Trade and Cooperation Agreement (TCA) will continue to have access to Jersey waters until the end of April 2021."
https://thefishingdaily.com/featured...-french-boats/
OK, deal or transitional arrangement, whatever. To me it still smacks of allowing the French to ride rough shod over the CI fleets and I fully expect the Frogs WILL accept nothing but a fully fledged deal in place come April.
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04-02-2021, 04:30 PM
17

Re: Bad deal for fishing !!

Originally Posted by Percy Vere ->
OK, deal or transitional arrangement, whatever. To me it still smacks of allowing the French to ride rough shod over the CI fleets and I fully expect the Frogs WILL accept nothing but a fully fledged deal in place come April.
The deal is already signed by us though Percy and we're only waiting for EU ratification.
Read the second paragraph of my link:
"French boats from Normandy have traditionally fished in the waters around Jersey but the Trade and Cooperation Agreement, when ratified, will mean that these fishing boats would lose access to these waters as the UK becomes a third country."

After this licensing applies as elsewhere in UK waters.
The link I provided does explain it, and the French cannot legally do otherwise than accept whatever licenses are issued in order to continue fishing those waters.
Otherwise we will see a descending spiral of reprisals which will benefit no-one.
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04-02-2021, 04:38 PM
18

Re: Bad deal for fishing !!

Zaphod, whilst I agree with you I have to say that, although closely connected to the UK, they are not subject to our laws and are not a part of the EU. They are Crown Dependencies, self-governing and have their own laws (including on taxation) and courts.

This briefing paper on the effects of Brexit on the CI is interesting.
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04-02-2021, 04:58 PM
19

Re: Bad deal for fishing !!

Originally Posted by Percy Vere ->
Zaphod, whilst I agree with you I have to say that, although closely connected to the UK, they are not subject to our laws and are not a part of the EU. They are Crown Dependencies, self-governing and have their own laws (including on taxation) and courts.

This briefing paper on the effects of Brexit on the CI is interesting.
I understand where you're coming from Percy but your link does not mention fishing (except for exports) whereas the link I provided specifically mentions the Channel Islands and the rules involved.
The Channel Islands are, to all intents and purposes including that of fishing, part of the United Kingdom.
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04-02-2021, 05:02 PM
20

Re: Bad deal for fishing !!

Yep, we agree. I still think the Frogs/Normans will overfish the CI's waters to their detriment though.
 
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