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06-08-2020, 09:49 AM
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Frexit




https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-henri-gallois


Macron will have to go for starters.
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06-08-2020, 03:29 PM
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Re: Frexit

Originally Posted by Cinderella ->



https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-henri-gallois


Macron will have to go for starters.
Whether France leaves the EU first, early, or never at all, I couldn't care less.

Whatever happens, we should NOT ally ourselves with the Frogs. Look back in history, ancient and recent, and you will see that they are not to be trusted.

Apart from two events last century (1914 and 1939) when they were our 'friends' - because they desperately needed our help - they have always acted against us entirely for their own benefit.

We can see it even now. Threatening and demanding. We have left the EU, yet they seem to think that we must hand them our territorial waters so that they can continue to fish them to destruction.

I can assure you, they are not our friends.

If they do leave the EU, no doubt they'll come across and offer to be our friends for ever - just as long as we give them whatever they want!
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06-08-2020, 04:11 PM
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Re: Frexit

Doubt it will happen on Macron' s watch.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...deal-talks-spt



Mr Macron, as a committed supporter of European integration, claimed he would fight "very hard" to keep France in the EU if it were to hold a referendum on membership of the bloc.
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06-08-2020, 04:24 PM
4

Re: Frexit

Fifteen years ago the French voted.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4592243.stm

Almost 55% of people voted "No", with 45% in favour. Turnout was high, at about 70%.
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06-08-2020, 05:50 PM
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Re: Frexit

Originally Posted by Cinderella ->
Fifteen years ago the French voted.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4592243.stm
Interesting. Do the Frogs have democratic elections?
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06-08-2020, 07:01 PM
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Re: Frexit

Some believe the voting system is broken, not just the French. Sortition could be a better option.
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06-08-2020, 07:58 PM
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Re: Frexit

Originally Posted by Cinderella ->
Some believe the voting system is broken, not just the French. Sortition could be a better option.
I had to look that up.

Can I assume that this would be selection of people from the general population by the drawing of lots.

I wonder how that might actually work in practice on a national scale.
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06-08-2020, 08:28 PM
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Re: Frexit

The Future of Everything - Tim Dunlop


https://equalitybylot.com/2018/10/16...ith-sortition/

Nothing is going to change until the main source of power in our society, our seat of government, is populated by people who are genuinely representative of the society at large. We have been taught forever that the way to do that is by voting, but that is simply wrong, and the quicker we unlearn it the better, no matter how counterintuitive it might seem at first. If you want a truly representative government of, by and for the people, then you need to choose it not by voting, but by sortition.
Voting as a way of choosing politicians dates to the 18th century, the time of the American and French revolutions, and there is little doubt that the leaders of these revolutions chose voting precisely as a means of exerting elite control over the political process.
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06-08-2020, 09:10 PM
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Re: Frexit

Originally Posted by Cinderella ->
The Future of Everything - Tim Dunlop

https://equalitybylot.com/2018/10/16...ith-sortition/

Voting as a way of choosing politicians dates to the 18th century, the time of the American and French revolutions, and there is little doubt that the leaders of these revolutions chose voting precisely as a means of exerting elite control over the political process.
Yes, I can see how such a system might make our democracy more democratic!

However, would replacing our representatives in parliament, who are currently experienced in the art of politics, with men and women off the streets be necessarily a working solution?

Would our replacement 'politicians' be up to the job? What sort of people would we choose? Businessmen? Trendy-lefty teachers? Union shop stewards? UKIP members? Struggling single women with seven children?

You see the potential problems?

Perhaps a more workable solution might be to replace the useless old-people's home on the other side of the Palace of Westminster with a sortitionally-elected body.

The Commons could discuss matters first, as at present, and the ideas they arrive at could then pass to the 'Lords' (or 'People's Parliament') for them to agree or disagree with the proposals.

The 'Sortition' parliament would be less likely to initiate proposals, as that would require a majority decision and there's no way of guessing who would agree with whom.

But if they were given the right to decide democratically within themselves on whether a Bill should be passed or rejected, that could relate to a decision by the country's population in general as to whether they really want what the Commons propose.

If rejected, the Bill would go back to the Commons for alteration, as at present but with the difference that the Lords are far more likely to be led entirely by their own self interest.

Perhaps others might comment on the viability of this idea or, preferably, come up with a better idea.
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06-08-2020, 09:40 PM
10

Re: Frexit

See where you are coming from, would imagine that there would be a standard criteria as there is now.

A third house in Westminster?
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