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28-11-2019, 01:10 AM
51

Re: Is anyone bothering with the election?

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
Did we ever leave square one? I thought we were in minus squares...
Ah, like 'negative progress'!
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28-11-2019, 01:16 AM
52

Re: Is anyone bothering with the election?

Originally Posted by JBR ->
Ah, like 'negative progress'!
Regression? Seems apt! If only those darned variables would stay still!
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28-11-2019, 01:19 AM
53

Re: Is anyone bothering with the election?

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
I get your point Annie, it didnt take long for the politicians to
completely mix up a perfectly simple vote into an unsolveable
mess!! This election was to solve the parliamentary paralysis?
Look whats happened, lslamaphobia anti semetism nuclear
deterrants NHS scottish independance?
All we wanted was to resign from a club!
IGTF! Donkeyman!
Well we will end up with BRINO, but that was always the case. But we may end up with more nurses and hopefully people won't have to sell their houses to get social care in future. The tories are talking about carers being recognised for their contributions and being allowed more flexibility to take leave from work.
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28-11-2019, 11:26 AM
54

Re: Is anyone bothering with the election?

Seems to me that the main election issue is:-

Do you want to leave the EU?

If the answer is yes, then there is only one party offering it as an option - however bad the deal may seem, it is the only offer, and could be fixed once out.

If you want to set Brexit aside, and concentrate on day to day issues, like NHS, taxation, military, etc., then you have different options.

The trouble with the different options is that none of them will happen until Brexit is sorted out.
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28-11-2019, 12:06 PM
55

Re: Is anyone bothering with the election?

Originally Posted by Tedc ->
Seems to me that the main election issue is:-

Do you want to leave the EU?

If the answer is yes, then there is only one party offering it as an option - however bad the deal may seem, it is the only offer, and could be fixed once out.

If you want to set Brexit aside, and concentrate on day to day issues, like NHS, taxation, military, etc., then you have different options.

The trouble with the different options is that none of them will happen until Brexit is sorted out.
I agree. Whatever politicians might claim, the main issue on most people's minds is Brexit.

The one party which would offer Brexit is, of course, the Brexit Party. Unfortunately, the majority of voters, for some reason, see only a two-party choice - Tories and Loonies. God knows why!
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28-11-2019, 12:42 PM
56

Re: Is anyone bothering with the election?

Originally Posted by Tedc ->
Seems to me that the main election issue is:-

Do you want to leave the EU?
Nope that was the Referendum issue.

Leave won


The election issue is selecting a government that will respect that referendum result and properly take us out of the EU. Sadly there does not exist one Our political system has long since been infiltrated and subverted by operatives who are serving the EU rather than the British people. Common Purpose, freemasonry etc etc.

There is no mainstream political party that will remove us from the EU except Farage's BrExit party and since that voting option has been removed from people in over 300 constituencies then it is impossible to achieve a BrExit Party government. Thus the election has already been rigged from the outset. The only parties we are permitted to vote for are the Establishment Parties that will ensure we Remain in the EU.

This is pure dictatorship running a farcical sham democracy.


Originally Posted by Tedc ->
If the answer is yes, then there is only one party offering it as an option - however bad the deal may seem, it is the only offer, and could be fixed once out.

You don't mention the party here but I assume you are referring to the Tories as you mention a "deal".

You need to be extremely clear Ted and understand that "deal". It is May's disastrous "surrender" deal in all but 5%. It DOES NOT take us out of the EU at all. It leaves us in and still having to abide by EU rules and it also leaves us under the jurisdiction of the ECJ.

It is nothing but a "pretend we have left" deal that doesn't see us leave at all and which paves the way for the UK to officially "re-join" in a few years time.

That's why it is referred to as BRINO, BrExit In Name Only.

There will be absolutely NO WAY to change things once that deal is put through parliament. We would be in a far worse situation than we are now. We would be in the EU and ECJ and have NO VOTE and NO VETO on any EU changes. So no, we patently couldn't do anything once this awful deal is passed through.

What would actually happen is the EU would change all manner of rules, including the terms of Article 50 such that it was nigh on impossible for any member state to ever leave and there would be nothing at all we could do about it. We would then in a handful of years time be brought back into the EU (by another EU serving parliament) and find ourselves totally and irrevocably shackled.

We would end up HAVING to join the disastrous Eurozone and doubtless the Schengen Agreement too.

This is all part of their grand plan.

You clearly need to go and read the terms of the "deal" you refer too. Equally you need to read the Lisbon Treaty to see the awful things this country has been signed up to.

You are going to lose your ability to even vote in UK elections because they won't exist. Neither will our Westminster. You will only be allowed to vote at a European level. You will only be allowed to vote for European Level Political Parties like :

- The European People's Party (EPP)
- The Party of European Socialists (PES)
- The Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe (ALDE)
- The European Green Party (EGP)
- The Alliance of European Conservatives and Reformists (AECR)

and so on


Do you seriously think you are going to be able to effect any meaningful changes to the affairs of Britain (like schools, NHS, railways etc) by voting for European parties????


All of this is mandated in the Lisbon Treaty which I suspect you haven't read. Tony BLiar signed us up to all this without giving the people any choice or vote in the matter.


Our country has been taken over by fraudulent politicians who are servants of the EU and wider bodies and secret societies.

Our sovereignty is being destroyed as is our nationality.

They are flooding our country with migrants who in the fullness of time will be given a vote thus ensuring that they can steer the results of future elections.

They are building a "One World Government" and creating Orwell's 1984 dystopian federal state. A state run by unelected dictators who can't be removed. A state that removes our most fundamental rights and freedoms like "Innocent Until Proven Guilty" and so on. This is a very serious time in our history.

Voting for Boris will result in the disastrous "May" deal going through and that will see the UK made totally submissive to the EU, game over.

Boris had a real chance to demonstrate the genuineness of his strong BrExit rhetoric. He was challenged by Farage to ditch the disastrous May deal.

Boris refused to do so

Thereby are his real intentions laid clear and bare before the electorate.

Boris is just the next EU stooge politician furthering their agendas. He is no different to May in this respect. He says what BrExiteers want to hear, but regardless, his intention is to push the awful "May deal" through parliament.


Had he consented to ditch that deal totally and fight for a real Exit from the EU he would have won this election with a landslide majority. Sadly he has not done that.

We have no choice therefore but to vote for those opposing the Tories in whatever constituency we live in as unpalatable as that is.

It would be a disaster for Boris to get a majority because that would mean he will present for the fourth time the May Deal and it would then get passed through. It has already been rejected firmly 3 times by the existing parliament so Boris's only tack is to get a new parliament that WILL vote it through. Then it is game over for Britain.

The electorate SHOULD have had the freedom to vote for the BrExit Party but the Establishment have removed that option thereby rigging the election.

Now we will have to simply vote for the most likely party to beat the Tories in our constituencies in order that we can get a hung parliament.

Even then it's no guarantee that the subsequent coalition wouldn't still vote through May's awful deal.

We are in a dire situation, betrayed from all sides by the secret society forces working in government.

The election has been totally rigged. We can not vote for the party that would take us out of the EU.

Democracy is now dead and has been replaced with outright dictatorship.

Soon enough you & I won't even be allowed to have these kind of open conversations on the internet.
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28-11-2019, 12:52 PM
57

Re: Is anyone bothering with the election?

Originally Posted by Realist ->
Nope that was the Referendum issue.

Leave won


The election issue is selecting a government that will respect that referendum result and properly take us out of the EU. Sadly there does not exist one Our political system has long since been infiltrated and subverted by operatives who are serving the EU rather than the British people. Common Purpose, freemasonry etc etc.

There is no mainstream political party that will remove us from the EU except Farage's BrExit party and since that voting option has been removed from people in over 300 constituencies then it is impossible to achieve a BrExit Party government. Thus the election has already been rigged from the outset. The only parties we are permitted to vote for are the Establishment Parties that will ensure we Remain in the EU.

This is pure dictatorship running a farcical sham democracy.





You don't mention the party here but I assume you are referring to the Tories as you mention a "deal".

You need to be extremely clear Ted and understand that "deal". It is May's disastrous "surrender" deal in all but 5%. It DOES NOT take us out of the EU at all. It leaves us in and still having to abide by EU rules and it also leaves us under the jurisdiction of the ECJ.

It is nothing but a "pretend we have left" deal that doesn't see us leave at all and which paves the way for the UK to officially "re-join" in a few years time.

That's why it is referred to as BRINO, BrExit In Name Only.

There will be absolutely NO WAY to change things once that deal is put through parliament. We would be in a far worse situation than we are now. We would be in the EU and ECJ and have NO VOTE and NO VETO on any EU changes. So no, we patently couldn't do anything once this awful deal is passed through.

What would actually happen is the EU would change all manner of rules, including the terms of Article 50 such that it was nigh on impossible for any member state to ever leave and there would be nothing at all we could do about it. We would then in a handful of years time be brought back into the EU (by another EU serving parliament) and find ourselves totally and irrevocably shackled.

We would end up HAVING to join the disastrous Eurozone and doubtless the Schengen Agreement too.

This is all part of their grand plan.

You clearly need to go and read the terms of the "deal" you refer too. Equally you need to read the Lisbon Treaty to see the awful things this country has been signed up to.

You are going to lose your ability to even vote in UK elections because they won't exist. Neither will our Westminster. You will only be allowed to vote at a European level. You will only be allowed to vote for European Level Political Parties like :

- The European People's Party (EPP)
- The Party of European Socialists (PES)
- The Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe (ALDE)
- The European Green Party (EGP)
- The Alliance of European Conservatives and Reformists (AECR)

and so on


Do you seriously think you are going to be able to effect any meaningful changes to the affairs of Britain (like schools, NHS, railways etc) by voting for European parties????


All of this is mandated in the Lisbon Treaty which I suspect you haven't read. Tony BLiar signed us up to all this without giving the people any choice or vote in the matter.


Our country has been taken over by fraudulent politicians who are servants of the EU and wider bodies and secret societies.

Our sovereignty is being destroyed as is our nationality.

They are flooding our country with migrants who in the fullness of time will be given a vote thus ensuring that they can steer the results of future elections.

They are building a "One World Government" and creating Orwell's 1984 dystopian federal state. A state run by unelected dictators who can't be removed. A state that removes our most fundamental rights and freedoms like "Innocent Until Proven Guilty" and so on. This is a very serious time in our history.

Voting for Boris will result in the disastrous "May" deal going through and that will see the UK made totally submissive to the EU, game over.

Boris had a real chance to demonstrate the genuineness of his strong BrExit rhetoric. He was challenged by Farage to ditch the disastrous May deal.

Boris refused to do so

Thereby are his real intentions laid clear and bare before the electorate.

Boris is just the next EU stooge politician furthering their agendas. He is no different to May in this respect. He says what BrExiteers want to hear, but regardless, his intention is to push the awful "May deal" through parliament.


Had he consented to ditch that deal totally and fight for a real Exit from the EU he would have won this election with a landslide majority. Sadly he has not done that.

We have no choice therefore but to vote for those opposing the Tories in whatever constituency we live in as unpalatable as that is.

It would be a disaster for Boris to get a majority because that would mean he will present for the fourth time the May Deal and it would then get passed through. It has already been rejected firmly 3 times by the existing parliament so Boris's only tack is to get a new parliament that WILL vote it through. Then it is game over for Britain.

The electorate SHOULD have had the freedom to vote for the BrExit Party but the Establishment have removed that option thereby rigging the election.

Now we will have to simply vote for the most likely party to beat the Tories in our constituencies in order that we can get a hung parliament.

Even then it's no guarantee that the subsequent coalition wouldn't still vote through May's awful deal.

We are in a dire situation, betrayed from all sides by the secret society forces working in government.

The election has been totally rigged. We can not vote for the party that would take us out of the EU.

Democracy is now dead and has been replaced with outright dictatorship.

Soon enough you & I won't even be allowed to have these kind of open conversations on the internet.

Boris Johnsons withdrawal deal has a very big difference to Theresa Mays deal.

Under mays deal, if a trade deal was not implemented or agreed, then the UK would enter the backstop which we could not unilaterally leave - ever !

Under Boris Johnsons deal, the backstop is removed, so at the end of 2020 if there is no deal, the UK can still leave without one.

The other similarities you mention only apply to the Withdrawal period between 31st Jan when we "leave" and 31st December 2020 when we can leave with or without a deal. In the meantime, the UK is out of all the EU treaties but bound by the WA (which is kind of the same thing but allows the UK and EU to function frictionless until end 2020). In the meantime we can create our own trade deals with whoever we wish in readiness for implementing them at the end of 2020 - including the EU should we have one. So, the no-deal option of walking away is still very much on the table and this is one of the main reasons (as I see it) that the ERG are fully supporting it and the Brexit Party have backed down in the tory seats during the GE.
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28-11-2019, 01:06 PM
58

Re: Is anyone bothering with the election?

Realist,

I post this without quoting as there is no space, on my pc, to post quotes as big as your one.

Which part of that addresses the question posed by the OP?

"Is anyone bothering with the election?
I was wondering whether I am the only one who is totally underwhelmed with the election. I don't think there is any choice. They all seem to be trying to outdo each other with ridiculously extravagant promises. This is despite all being caught out being disingenuous in the past.

Is it just me or is this a complete farce?"
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28-11-2019, 01:41 PM
59

Re: Is anyone bothering with the election?

Originally Posted by Tedc ->
Realist,

I post this without quoting as there is no space, on my pc, to post quotes as big as your one.

Which part of that addresses the question posed by the OP?

"Is anyone bothering with the election?
I was wondering whether I am the only one who is totally underwhelmed with the election. I don't think there is any choice. They all seem to be trying to outdo each other with ridiculously extravagant promises. This is despite all being caught out being disingenuous in the past.

Is it just me or is this a complete farce?"
It is a farce Ted, one produced and acted in by the establishment
of this country in order to dissipate and confuse the electorate
whilst sneaking Mays WA through parliament?
Bread says we will be able to leave without a deal in 2021 ! But will
we? Can you see us doing that then any more than we can do it
now??
We are fighting ourselves, the eu has pre programned our ruling
classes to fight EUs cause!
Regards bDonkeyman!
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28-11-2019, 02:46 PM
60

Re: Is anyone bothering with the election?

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
Bread says we will be able to leave without a deal in 2021 ! But will we? Can you see us doing that then any more than we can do it now??

Yep this.


It has been clear for the past 3 years that parliament has absolutely no intention of letting us simply "walk away" with no deal and then negotiate a great deal. It is Britain's strongest negotiating position but for 3 years our parliament has refused to take that option and then actually drafted and rushed through new legislation to prevent anyone from going down the No Deal route.

They did that for the 31st Oct deadline.

It would seem common sense that immediately after the election they will amend the deadline on that traitorous "Benn" Bill and extend it to 31st Jan thus again preventing us from walking away.

So No, I categorically think Bread needs to reappraise that aspect of the situation. We will not be permitted to leave via the No Deal route.

That then leaves us stuck in the no man's land of the WA.

Essentially it is another delaying mechanism.

They first want a fake election to get the majority then need to pass any Bill through parliament. That done they can constantly claim they have a mandate from the masses.

BrExit is scuppered.
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