05-02-2016, 03:37 PM
21
Re: Asylum seeker found guilty of rape will not be deported
Originally Posted by clumsy
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17 year olds are not children, they are young men. This is what is so ridiculous when articles refer to "unaccompanied minors". The majority of them are, allegedly, 15/17, they are not children, they are young adults, and, as you rightly say, many of them are well out of their teens too. Calling them "unaccompanied minors" is an absolute farce.
Both British schools and foster carers have been questioning some of these "children" who arrive on their doorsteps as it is a real risk mixing young men in their 20s with girls of 14 and 15.
05-02-2016, 03:44 PM
22
Re: Asylum seeker found guilty of rape will not be deported
Originally Posted by Flowerpower
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Very true. the media try and tug at your heartstrings by talking about "children" and showing pictures of wide eyed kids of about 6 or 7. Many of these "children" are young men posing as teenagers and have the beards to prove it! Both British schools and foster carers have been questioning some of these "children" who arrive on their doorsteps as it is a real risk mixing young men in their 20s with girls of 14 and 15.
05-02-2016, 06:10 PM
23
Re: Asylum seeker found guilty of rape will not be deported
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
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HiThe law in Austria is very different to the Law here in the UK.
You are wrong in your statement that DNA is taken in the UK whenever a person is arrested.
It is only taken for recordable offences.
A ‘recordable’ offence is one for which the police are required to keep a record. Generally speaking, these are imprisonable offences; however, it also includes a number of non-imprisonable offences such as begging and taxi touting. The police are not able to take or retain the DNA or fingerprints of an individual who is arrested for an offence which is not recordable.
Non-recordable offences are basically driving offences or similar, are they not?
quite right Twink.
05-02-2016, 10:36 PM
25
Re: Asylum seeker found guilty of rape will not be deported
Originally Posted by Tpin
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I think you're being a bit vague, almost all crimes are recordable and carry an imprisonable sentence, therefore the basic, non-invasive swab can be used to gather DNA upon arrest.Non-recordable offences are basically driving offences or similar, are they not?
Apologies Tpin, I was not being deliberately vague, It is just that the rules are mindbogglingly boring.
The legislation is here
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/1139/note/made
The numbers of non recordable offences for which people are convicted in the Courts is quite high, in 2009 the figures were
Non Recordable offences 588,965
Recordable offences 818,491
Total Convictions 1,407,456
The non recordable offences are not all minor ones either, for example breach of the Data Protection Act is a non-recordable offence. Therefore,someone who has stolen personal data and sold this for profit would not have a criminal record.
Reproducing British Currency Notes is not recordable, neither is causing unnecessary suffering to animals.
The whole system is a mess and needs sorting.
To answer your earlier question, Enforcement Agencies is a term used to cover everything except the Military and the Police, so it covers the Security Services, Immigration and Border Control, the Nuclear Inspectorate etc right through to VOSA and Trading Standards.
I have never been either Military or Police, but I have worked with both at various times.
05-02-2016, 10:48 PM
26
Re: Asylum seeker found guilty of rape will not be deported
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
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HiApologies Tpin, I was not being deliberately vague, It is just that the rules are mindbogglingly boring.
The legislation is here
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/1139/note/made
The numbers of non recordable offences for which people are convicted in the Courts is quite high, in 2009 the figures were
Non Recordable offences 588,965
Recordable offences 818,491
Total Convictions 1,407,456
The non recordable offences are not all minor ones either, for example breach of the Data Protection Act is a non-recordable offence. Therefore,someone who has stolen personal data and sold this for profit would not have a criminal record.
Reproducing British Currency Notes is not recordable, neither is causing unnecessary suffering to animals.
The whole system is a mess and needs sorting.
To answer your earlier question, Enforcement Agencies is a term used to cover everything except the Military and the Police, so it covers the Security Services, Immigration and Border Control, the Nuclear Inspectorate etc right through to VOSA and Trading Standards.
I have never been either Military or Police, but I have worked with both at various times.
As for the crimes you mention, surely reproduction of bank notes/ currency is forgery or at least fraud/deception?
I wouldn't expect breaching the Data Protection Act to be high on the list of serious crimes, it's such a mine field and can be as trivial as discussing someone's loan arrangements with a company. I wouldn't expect or want somebody to have a criminal record for trivial matters.
The figures quoted are a tad misleading(not by you)as the unrecorded will include speeding, no insurance etc.
The 800,000+ will all be subject to at least the minimum DNA swab technique, no?
05-02-2016, 11:41 PM
27
Re: Asylum seeker found guilty of rape will not be deported
HiThe figures are only those which end up in Court, Fixed Penalty Notices, Cautions for small amounts of drugs etc are not recorded as they do not get to Court.
I was not joking about the Bank Note thing, it is stupid I know, but that is the law at the present time.
As for the Data Protection thing, that is different.
Minor breaches, like the instance you mention, I agree should not be recordable, however that is not the issue.
The issue is that stealing say 50,000 personal details and then selling them for profit is also not recordable, that is major league crime and should be recordable.
It is a problem, as that is how the people smugglers, illegals, money launderers etc get the info to produce false identities.
The Government has been sitting on a report since 2011, which was meant to sort this entire mess out, true to form, they have done nothing about it.
06-02-2016, 12:14 AM
28
Re: Asylum seeker found guilty of rape will not be deported
My uncle was an Inspector with Cheshire police in the 70's and investigated a serious counterfeiting operation, this included large denomination bank notes, bank/po giros, bearer bonds etc.The head of the operation got 18 years because the crime was deemed against The Crown, money.
I really cannot understand why counterfeiting/forgery is an unrecorded crime.
06-02-2016, 12:52 AM
29
Re: Asylum seeker found guilty of rape will not be deported
Originally Posted by Tpin
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My uncle was an Inspector with Cheshire police in the 70's and investigated a serious counterfeiting operation, this included large denomination bank notes, bank/po giros, bearer bonds etc.The head of the operation got 18 years because the crime was deemed against The Crown, money.
I really cannot understand why counterfeiting/forgery is an unrecorded crime.
You should never underestimate the incompetence
of Government.
The offence, Reproducing British currency notes (section 18 Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981) is not included as recordable simply because someone forgot to include it.
So, you will not get your DNA taken for that.
However, if you do any of the following you can have your DNA taken.
Making a false statement in connection with an application for a sex establishment licence
(paragraph 21 of Schedule 3 to the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1982
Failure to co-operate with a preliminary (roadside) test (section 6 of the Road Traffic Act 1988)
Taking a pedal cycle without consent (section 12 of the Theft Act 1968)
Falsely claiming a professional qualification (section 44 of the Nursing and Midwifery Order 2001)
Great isn't it?
You have to work in Government for many years to fully understand the madness of the system.
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