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JBR
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04-09-2020, 08:07 PM
21

Re: House WiFi - a Fact I wasn't aware of!

Originally Posted by digitalham ->
4G can rival ADSL but apart from the higher upstream speeds can't rival even FTTC let alone a full fibre connection. I notice that they are putting in ducting for FTTP back home but I expect it will be considerably more than I pay for an 80/20 FTTC connection that delivers about 60/18 and I have no justification for anything faster than that. I run a web server from home which rules out using 4G there otherwise I'd probably give that a try as I could just take the router and sim home from here.
Oh yes. From what I've read, 4G is reasonably good for both download speeds and upload speeds, the latter being something I'd need for my security cameras.
Of course, as far as I know, it can't improve on fibre.

I have fibre which, to be honest, does what I need, though the supplier has been having problems of late and their customer service stinks. Read customer reviews on TrustPilot!

Reviews in the same place of 4G House WiFi are not encouraging. Of course, I realise that the reviewers we read are almost exclusively people who are dissatisfied with their suppliers and there are likely to be many who are very happy with their service but 'remain silent'!

As for fibre, what I'd really like to see around here is some competition. Virgin Media rely on the fact that they are the only option, so they can afford to sit back and do nothing.

The other worrying thing is that VM refuse to deal with Resolver and even the Ombudsman, and OFCOM are not interested in looking into customer complaints, apparently.

In other words, they seem to be beyond the law!
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05-09-2020, 01:00 PM
22

Re: House WiFi - a Fact I wasn't aware of!

You mention CCTV. For that to work from outside your home network you'd need what are called P2P cameras - they establish a link to a third party server and you connect to them through that. This is because mobile phone internet access is what is known as NATted - many users have the same public IP so you can't set up an open port and use a DDNS service to connect to the cameras. I could do that for my CCTV but there is no solution for my webserver. As the sites I run on it are primarily private usage I could use free web hosting but that tends to be slow and unreliable.
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05-09-2020, 01:42 PM
23

Re: House WiFi - a Fact I wasn't aware of!

Originally Posted by digitalham ->
You mention CCTV. For that to work from outside your home network you'd need what are called P2P cameras - they establish a link to a third party server and you connect to them through that. This is because mobile phone internet access is what is known as NATted - many users have the same public IP so you can't set up an open port and use a DDNS service to connect to the cameras. I could do that for my CCTV but there is no solution for my webserver. As the sites I run on it are primarily private usage I could use free web hosting but that tends to be slow and unreliable.
I'm afraid I'm completely lost now! P2P, NATted, DDNS?

The only bits I understand are that my security cameras presently connect to the Virgin Media router which provides a more than adequate upload speed.

An ADSL router, I am told, would provide an upload speed of about 1Mb. The Ring people (the camera manufacturers) assure me that a 2Mb upload speed is preferable for 1080p quality, 1Mb would be adequate for 720p quality videos.

So if the worst comes to the worst, I could get by with an ADSL internet service, or possibly a 4G Home WiFi account.
I think I'll keep things as they are for now, though, as things seem to be working well at the moment. Things may change in the future, of course.

Thanks for all your advice, even if I didn't understand some of it!
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16-09-2020, 09:28 AM
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Re: House WiFi - a Fact I wasn't aware of!

Here is an answer to CCTV on an EE home connection. It uses different acronyms but the answer is the same - it won't work and other mobile operators will probably be the same.

https://community.ee.co.uk/t5/4G-and...4g/td-p/831819

That said some CCTV cameras and DVRs are what is called P2P and they might but I am not certain. Certainly with a P2P camera you don't need DDNS so that's one less acronym to worry about
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16-09-2020, 09:44 AM
25

Re: House WiFi - a Fact I wasn't aware of!

Originally Posted by digitalham ->
Here is an answer to CCTV on an EE home connection. It uses different acronyms but the answer is the same - it won't work and other mobile operators will probably be the same.

https://community.ee.co.uk/t5/4G-and...4g/td-p/831819

That said some CCTV cameras and DVRs are what is called P2P and they might but I am not certain. Certainly with a P2P camera you don't need DDNS so that's one less acronym to worry about


Well, I appreciate your trying to help, but everything on that link went well and truly straight over my head!

Anyway, I do understand that 4G will not work with regard to my security cameras, and that's good enough for me.

I'll stick with VM for now, as things seem to be working.
Next year, however, they're going to put the price up by about 10 per month so I'll think again then.
I'm afraid that VM are still pretty poor when it comes to customer services, so I have a feeling that I'm not the only one around here not very satisfied with them. Of course, they are aware that they have no direct competition, so they are, in effect, holding us to ransom!

In a few years, though, it is just possible that another, competing, fibre connection may be available here. If not, I can still think about a copper phone line.
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17-09-2020, 05:44 PM
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Re: House WiFi - a Fact I wasn't aware of!

It's only might not rather than will not. There is a good chance yours will be P2P as you'd never heard of DDNS and they may well be OK.

With VM the chances are you'll be able to renegotiate. Their whole business model is based on keeping people permanently in contract by threatening big rises and then coughing up a discount in exchange for a contract extension although they are equally happy to take well over the going rate from those who don't negotiate a discount.

Most places can get FTTC connections these days which are sold as fibre and offer either 40/10 or 80/20 connections. What you'll actually get will be forecast when you check/sign up.
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17-09-2020, 07:57 PM
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Re: House WiFi - a Fact I wasn't aware of!

Originally Posted by digitalham ->
It's only might not rather than will not. There is a good chance yours will be P2P as you'd never heard of DDNS and they may well be OK.

With VM the chances are you'll be able to renegotiate. Their whole business model is based on keeping people permanently in contract by threatening big rises and then coughing up a discount in exchange for a contract extension although they are equally happy to take well over the going rate from those who don't negotiate a discount.

Most places can get FTTC connections these days which are sold as fibre and offer either 40/10 or 80/20 connections. What you'll actually get will be forecast when you check/sign up.
I'd never heard of P2P either!

Yes, when the time comes, next year, I shall certainly 'negotiate'. My first attempt will be to request a reduction from 100Mb to 50Mb at reduced cost. I really don't need 100Mb as, I suspect, most of their customers feel too.

If they won't play, I'll have a look at what's available via copper telephone lines. I shall first check whether my Fire Stick will manage with 10Mb, of course, along with my other uses.

Interestingly, these are the speeds I have been finding on Broadband.co.uk since August. These are all done from the same laptop at the same location using WiFi.
I should write to VM to complain about this, but I see no point as they haven't replied to the three letters I have sent them since a problem in July!

Sorry! I forgot to include the picture.


Attached Images File Type: jpg Broadband.co.uk speed.jpg (23.2 KB, 4 views)
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17-09-2020, 08:31 PM
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Re: House WiFi - a Fact I wasn't aware of!

I was with VM for maybe 3 years. The problem their technology faces is limited bandwidth for upload. The limited local bandwith is typically shared by 100 or so users and if they are doing normal things like browsing the internet, gaming or watching youtube or catchup TV there isn't usually much of a problem but should you have a couple of 24x7 seeders of torrents nearby they can easily saturate the upstream. If that happens then everybody on their little segment of the VM network suffers and suffers badly. They can also simply add too many customers into your area. Should either happen then regardless of what you are paying for you'll probably be down to single digit speeds and they can take an age to correct the problem.

During my time with them I had 2 periods of that problem each lasting a couple of months or more. This is why you'll see such diverse comments about VM - most places most of the time it works very well but on the occasions it doesn't it can be beyond dire. If you complain they'll offer a reduction but that isn't usually what you want. You want it fixed. I was very pleased indeed when FTTC was available to me and switched at the first opportunity.

My area has the old alumiium phone lines and they were poor and unreliable with ADSL which was why I took VM. As the newer FTTC product only uses the link from your nearest cabinet to your propery for the broadband the aging wired network plays a much smaller part in your circuit and so far mine has been OK although speeds are slowly declining as more swap from VM onto it.
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17-09-2020, 09:12 PM
29

Re: House WiFi - a Fact I wasn't aware of!

Originally Posted by digitalham ->
I was with VM for maybe 3 years. The problem their technology faces is limited bandwidth for upload. The limited local bandwith is typically shared by 100 or so users and if they are doing normal things like browsing the internet, gaming or watching youtube or catchup TV there isn't usually much of a problem but should you have a couple of 24x7 seeders of torrents nearby they can easily saturate the upstream. If that happens then everybody on their little segment of the VM network suffers and suffers badly. They can also simply add too many customers into your area. Should either happen then regardless of what you are paying for you'll probably be down to single digit speeds and they can take an age to correct the problem.

During my time with them I had 2 periods of that problem each lasting a couple of months or more. This is why you'll see such diverse comments about VM - most places most of the time it works very well but on the occasions it doesn't it can be beyond dire. If you complain they'll offer a reduction but that isn't usually what you want. You want it fixed. I was very pleased indeed when FTTC was available to me and switched at the first opportunity.

My area has the old alumiium phone lines and they were poor and unreliable with ADSL which was why I took VM. As the newer FTTC product only uses the link from your nearest cabinet to your propery for the broadband the aging wired network plays a much smaller part in your circuit and so far mine has been OK although speeds are slowly declining as more swap from VM onto it.
I thought that suppliers were legally obliged to meet their advertised average speeds. The ones on my image above (now added!) are in no way anything like the 100Mb I'm paying for.
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18-09-2020, 04:55 PM
30

Re: House WiFi - a Fact I wasn't aware of!

Originally Posted by JBR ->
I thought that suppliers were legally obliged to meet their advertised average speeds. The ones on my image above (now added!) are in no way anything like the 100Mb I'm paying for.
If you complain they'll reduce your payments. Unless this is just a WiFi issue at your house they'll probably already know so there will be no great inquest. When they'll fix it is anybody's guess. They might ask for a speedtest wired though.
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