05-08-2020, 11:39 PM
21
Re: Trump Pulls 12000 Troops Out of Delinquent Germany
Originally Posted by JBR
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It is no surprise that the countries bordering Russia spend at least the agreed 2%.We do as well, of course.
Orwell's map shows britain in blue. Don't you think the russians would walk on to picadilly circus And change that colour?
06-08-2020, 07:25 AM
22
Re: Trump Pulls 12000 Troops Out of Delinquent Germany
Originally Posted by JBR
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It is no surprise that the countries bordering Russia spend at least the agreed 2%.We do as well, of course.
The other EU countries, who have the good fortune to hide behind the 'front line' plus, incidentally, Canada feel that they don't have to contribute what they initially agreed to.
Yes. I believe Trump did the right thing. I'm hoping that he will continue to support this one of his allies - the UK.
Although I have maintained before that I believe that Russia no longer has any expansionist intentions, it is impossible to assume that it will not happen in the future.
Whether or not you like the Americans or not, it cannot be denied that we in Europe owe our continued freedom to them.
Certainly the EU alone, even with its much vaunted 'EU Army', wouldn't last five minutes against a concerted attack by Russia without America's help.
If you look at a map of Orwell's famous novel '1984' you would see two of the great alliances/empires of the world, Eurasia and Oceania.
What a striking similarity to what might one day happen following our escape from the EU and their inability or unwillingness to defend themselves!
Great Post, JBR. If my memory serves me correctly the nations not honouring NATO commitments (most of them in the EU) pledged that they would do so at the (I think) G20 a few years ago. More lies from these dysfunctional, bankrupt nations
The USA hate Germany (because of unfair trade, NATO etc) who are the poster boy for the EU. The more Germany ignores its obligations the less favourable the block is seen as a whole.
Once again, Germany has become the ruling elite in the EU and there's nothing any of them can do about it except obedience and conformity.
The EU army will be, basically France and we all know what France (and Italy and the Netherlands for that matter) do when threatened.
06-08-2020, 10:53 AM
23
Re: Trump Pulls 12000 Troops Out of Delinquent Germany
Originally Posted by Bread
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Great Post, JBR. If my memory serves me correctly the nations not honouring NATO commitments (most of them in the EU) pledged that they would do so at the (I think) G20 a few years ago. More lies from these dysfunctional, bankrupt nations The USA hate Germany (because of unfair trade, NATO etc) who are the poster boy for the EU. The more Germany ignores its obligations the less favourable the block is seen as a whole.
Once again, Germany has become the ruling elite in the EU and there's nothing any of them can do about it except obedience and conformity.
The EU army will be, basically France and we all know what France (and Italy and the Netherlands for that matter) do when threatened.
Yes, I think America was right to begin withdrawing their support from the European mainland. Shame about Poland and the other eastern countries, though.
I think that time will tell. Even now, now that we are leaving the EU, I think that some are beginning to reconsider their stance. If America continues to withdraw from Europe, or even from NATO itself, I think the underpaying EU countries will soon come to their senses. Without America's military support, they are ripe for the picking!
06-08-2020, 11:11 AM
24
Re: Trump Pulls 12000 Troops Out of Delinquent Germany
Originally Posted by JBR
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Yes, I think America was right to begin withdrawing their support from the European mainland. Shame about Poland and the other eastern countries, though.
I think that time will tell. Even now, now that we are leaving the EU, I think that some are beginning to reconsider their stance. If America continues to withdraw from Europe, or even from NATO itself, I think the underpaying EU countries will soon come to their senses. Without America's military support, they are ripe for the picking!
Let's face it, if a NATO country is attacked (like the USA was on 9/11, the UK with the Salisbury poisoning etc), where the hell is the EU in all this ? The NATO nations who are supposedly there to defend other NATO members just sit on their hands like cowards and hide.
They don't pay what they owe for a start and then in the face of an attack they do what they have always done and run away.
We saw this as well with the Falklands - where the hells was the Netherlands and Germany, Spain, Italy ?
Eurofighter ... the 40 year old plane that only Germany buys which was obsolete 40 years ago, built to fight a Cold War, which was over before it even got out of the hangar.
Irelands Airforce has a converted 737 and another plane with propellers. What a mighty airforce the EU army has.... not
06-08-2020, 12:01 PM
25
Re: Trump Pulls 12000 Troops Out of Delinquent Germany
Originally Posted by Bread
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It will be interesting to see what % of GDP the 27 will have to pay towards the Common Defence Policy, or, as we know it, the EU army. At the moment, they would be paying into both, so I can see less money going into NATO and more into their own Army etc. What this means for NATO is that there will be a stronger alliance between UK, Canada, USA, Japan, Australia as a "new NATO" that doesn't need to co-fund countries that don't pay up.Let's face it, if a NATO country is attacked (like the USA was on 9/11, the UK with the Salisbury poisoning etc), where the hell is the EU in all this ? The NATO nations who are supposedly there to defend other NATO members just sit on their hands like cowards and hide.
They don't pay what they owe for a start and then in the face of an attack they do what they have always done and run away.
We saw this as well with the Falklands - where the hells was the Netherlands and Germany, Spain, Italy ?
Eurofighter ... the 40 year old plane that only Germany buys which was obsolete 40 years ago, built to fight a Cold War, which was over before it even got out of the hangar.
Irelands Airforce has a converted 737 and another plane with propellers. What a mighty airforce the EU army has.... not
I'd be more than happy with that.
Leave what's left of the EU to their own devices.
06-08-2020, 01:38 PM
26
Re: Trump Pulls 12000 Troops Out of Delinquent Germany
Originally Posted by Bread
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We saw this as well with the Falklands - where the hells was the Netherlands and Germany, Spain, Italy ?
You can read the point of view of the United Nations on your colonies here: https://www.un.org/dppa/decolonization/en/nsgt
06-08-2020, 01:43 PM
27
Re: Trump Pulls 12000 Troops Out of Delinquent Germany
Originally Posted by JBR
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The 'new NATO' = 'Five Eyes' + Japan.I'd be more than happy with that.
Leave what's left of the EU to their own devices.
Exactly
06-08-2020, 01:49 PM
28
Re: Trump Pulls 12000 Troops Out of Delinquent Germany
Originally Posted by Bread
->
It will be interesting to see what % of GDP the 27 will have to pay towards the Common Defence Policy, or, as we know it, the EU army. At the moment, they would be paying into both, so I can see less money going into NATO and more into their own Army etc. What this means for NATO is that there will be a stronger alliance between UK, Canada, USA, Japan, Australia as a "new NATO" that doesn't need to co-fund countries that don't pay up.
Nato's running costs are met by a common funding arrangement based on each country's national income. This is to cover:
civilian staff and administrative costs of Nato headquartersjoint operations, strategic commands, radar and early warning systems, training and liaisondefence communications systems, airfields, harbours and fuel supplies
The civilian and military budget for 2019 was set at about €1.67bn (£1.43; $1.84bn), according to Nato figures.
The US was paying for just over 22% of this, while Germany's contribution was 14.76%, and France and the UK just under 10.5% each.
The rest was shared by the other members of the alliance.
A common defence policy will be less expensive (smaller number of countries, utilize existing administrative services). It will not be too great a burden
06-08-2020, 03:17 PM
29
Re: Trump Pulls 12000 Troops Out of Delinquent Germany
Originally Posted by Bread
->
It will be interesting to see what % of GDP the 27 will have to pay towards the Common Defence Policy, or, as we know it, the EU army. At the moment, they would be paying into both, so I can see less money going into NATO and more into their own Army etc. What this means for NATO is that there will be a stronger alliance between UK, Canada, USA, Japan, Australia as a "new NATO" that doesn't need to co-fund countries that don't pay up.Let's face it, if a NATO country is attacked (like the USA was on 9/11, the UK with the Salisbury poisoning etc), where the hell is the EU in all this ? The NATO nations who are supposedly there to defend other NATO members just sit on their hands like cowards and hide.
They don't pay what they owe for a start and then in the face of an attack they do what they have always done and run away.
We saw this as well with the Falklands - where the hells was the Netherlands and Germany, Spain, Italy ?
Eurofighter ... the 40 year old plane that only Germany buys which was obsolete 40 years ago, built to fight a Cold War, which was over before it even got out of the hangar.
Irelands Airforce has a converted 737 and another plane with propellers. What a mighty airforce the EU army has.... not
06-08-2020, 03:22 PM
30
Re: Trump Pulls 12000 Troops Out of Delinquent Germany
Originally Posted by Percy Vere
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And never forget that the Frogs were supplying the Argies with Exocet missiles to be used against our boys.
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