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Banchory
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18-04-2021, 04:01 PM
11

Re: Brussels opposes UK entry to the Lugano Convention legal pact

Originally Posted by Zaphod ->
Swimmy is right but you should maybe remember that these things work both ways.
Why do I need to remember something I already know?
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Zaphod
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18-04-2021, 05:10 PM
12

Re: Brussels opposes UK entry to the Lugano Convention legal pact

Originally Posted by Banchory ->
Why do I need to remember something I already know?
Because you forget to mention it in your earlier post.
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18-04-2021, 05:13 PM
13

Re: Brussels opposes UK entry to the Lugano Convention legal pact

Originally Posted by Judd ->
Will Yorkshire English do?


It means that they can bugger/sod/f*** off. More politely, they can get lost.

In Scotland we use soldiers instead of marbles. Just sayin'
Banchory
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18-04-2021, 05:37 PM
14

Re: Brussels opposes UK entry to the Lugano Convention legal pact

Originally Posted by Zaphod ->
Because you forget to mention it in your earlier post.
Thatís because I didnít see the need to state the obvious.

I canít see it makes much difference as we donít have similar arrangements with non EU countries .

The London Chamber of Commerce seem to be upset about it though.
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18-04-2021, 06:19 PM
15

Re: Brussels opposes UK entry to the Lugano Convention legal pact

Originally Posted by Banchory ->
Thatís because I didnít see the need to state the obvious.
You mean that you deliberately set out to mislead others by omission?
Otherwise what are you going on about?

Originally Posted by Banchory ->
I canít see it makes much difference as we donít have similar arrangements with non EU countries .
Which is basically what Swim said and I agreed with.

Originally Posted by Banchory ->
The London Chamber of Commerce seem to be upset about it though.
Do they?
Where is your supporting evidence and why does a Chamber of Commerce really care about an EU agreement when you've already said we have no similar agreements elsewhere?


Here's The Spectator's take on things:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...itics-with-law
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18-04-2021, 09:40 PM
16

Re: Brussels opposes UK entry to the Lugano Convention legal pact

Originally Posted by Banchory ->
Thatís because I didnít see the need to state the obvious.

I canít see it makes much difference as we donít have similar arrangements with non EU countries .

The London Chamber of Commerce seem to be upset about it though.
Imagine a scenario where you have bought a Christmas present for a friend, and itís being shipped from a company in Europe. It arrives and is not what you ordered, and you end up in a dispute with the company that sold it to you.

Civil judicial cooperation allows you to enforce your rights across the differing legal jurisdictions.
Agreed rules on jurisdiction and recognition and enforcement of judgments in civil commercial matters ensure that those involved in cross-border trade and transactions are protected and have access to justice regardless of their financial resources.
These rules benefit individuals, consumers and small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) most, and the effects of not having access to efficient mechanisms on enforcement of judgments is felt on both sides of the arising EU Ė UK border.

The commercial, cultural and social ties between the EU and UK are here to stay, and the continuation of a deep and meaningful relationship is in the interest of both.
Whatever our relationship is with the EU moving forward, UK consumers will still want to buy from EU businesses, and likewise EU consumers will want to buy from British businesses.
Procedural obstacles apply both to UK and EU parties equally: if there is no commonly agreed framework on the enforcement of judgments, it is felt in both sides of the border as recovery of assets or courts awards becomes more complicated and costly for the parties involved.

Since it is the UK that is eager to become member of this convention, the EU now uses its granting permission as leverage in the NI protocol discussion.
Banchory
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18-04-2021, 10:53 PM
17

Re: Brussels opposes UK entry to the Lugano Convention legal pact

Originally Posted by Solasch ->
Imagine a scenario where you have bought a Christmas present for a friend, and itís being shipped from a company in Europe. It arrives and is not what you ordered, and you end up in a dispute with the company that sold it to you.

Civil judicial cooperation allows you to enforce your rights across the differing legal jurisdictions.
Agreed rules on jurisdiction and recognition and enforcement of judgments in civil commercial matters ensure that those involved in cross-border trade and transactions are protected and have access to justice regardless of their financial resources.
These rules benefit individuals, consumers and small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) most, and the effects of not having access to efficient mechanisms on enforcement of judgments is felt on both sides of the arising EU Ė UK border.

The commercial, cultural and social ties between the EU and UK are here to stay, and the continuation of a deep and meaningful relationship is in the interest of both.
Whatever our relationship is with the EU moving forward, UK consumers will still want to buy from EU businesses, and likewise EU consumers will want to buy from British businesses.
Procedural obstacles apply both to UK and EU parties equally: if there is no commonly agreed framework on the enforcement of judgments, it is felt in both sides of the border as recovery of assets or courts awards becomes more complicated and costly for the parties involved.

Since it is the UK that is eager to become member of this convention, the EU now uses its granting permission as leverage in the NI protocol discussion.
Yes, itís a nice to have convention however it seems to currently apply to EU and EFTA countries. How would a third country fit into this framework, particularly if there is significant divergence
Banchory
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18-04-2021, 11:46 PM
18

Re: Brussels opposes UK entry to the Lugano Convention legal pact

Originally Posted by Zaphod ->
You mean that you deliberately set out to mislead others by omission?
Otherwise what are you going on about?



Which is basically what Swim said and I agreed with.


Do they?
Where is your supporting evidence and why does a Chamber of Commerce really care about an EU agreement when you've already said we have no similar agreements elsewhere?


Here's The Spectator's take on things:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...itics-with-law
So you are inferring other members of the forum are fools who wouldnít understand that the U.K. not being granted accession to the Lugano convention has reciprocal implications. Most disingenuous of you

Hereís comment from the LCoC Director

https://twitter.com/richarddaburge/s...516120576?s=21

Seems The Spectator are still feigning fake indignation at being treated as a third country and still want to have their cake and eat it.
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19-04-2021, 08:16 AM
19

Re: Brussels opposes UK entry to the Lugano Convention legal pact

Originally Posted by Solasch ->
Imagine a scenario where you have bought a Christmas present for a friend, and itís being shipped from a company in Europe. It arrives and is not what you ordered, and you end up in a dispute with the company that sold it to you.

Civil judicial cooperation allows you to enforce your rights across the differing legal jurisdictions.
Agreed rules on jurisdiction and recognition and enforcement of judgments in civil commercial matters ensure that those involved in cross-border trade and transactions are protected and have access to justice regardless of their financial resources.
These rules benefit individuals, consumers and small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) most, and the effects of not having access to efficient mechanisms on enforcement of judgments is felt on both sides of the arising EU Ė UK border.

The commercial, cultural and social ties between the EU and UK are here to stay, and the continuation of a deep and meaningful relationship is in the interest of both.
Whatever our relationship is with the EU moving forward, UK consumers will still want to buy from EU businesses, and likewise EU consumers will want to buy from British businesses.
Procedural obstacles apply both to UK and EU parties equally: if there is no commonly agreed framework on the enforcement of judgments, it is felt in both sides of the border as recovery of assets or courts awards becomes more complicated and costly for the parties involved.

Since it is the UK that is eager to become member of this convention, the EU now uses its granting permission as leverage in the NI protocol discussion.
That's a whole load of waffle for stuff that already happens every single day.
As eBay buyers and sellers know only too well for a start.


You must think visitors to this thread are daft because - as Banchory has already admitted - we do not have similar arrangements with anybody else.
Posting opinionated drivel doesn't help your cause either BTW.

Of course the UK wants to join the Lugatno convention, pretty much for the obvious reasons as already stated.
But we are "eager" are we?

Don't be so ruddy daft.
We do or we don't and either way and - as said now too many times - both sides will be affected by the outcome.

Since you seem to prefer opinions, here is a legal opinion:
https://www.simmons-simmons.com/en/p...-so-what-next-
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19-04-2021, 08:29 AM
20

Re: Brussels opposes UK entry to the Lugano Convention legal pact

Originally Posted by Banchory ->
Yes, itís a nice to have convention however it seems to currently apply to EU and EFTA countries. How would a third country fit into this framework, particularly if there is significant divergence

If a consumer/buyer has a dispute with firm in, let's say, italy, he can take that firm to court in the UK. The ruling of the court has to be enforced by the firm in italy.
At least, if the UK is member of the lugano convention. If not,

The buyer has to travel to italy, hire a local barrister, and then can take the firm to court in italy. The ruling of the court will be based on italian law, and the british buyer has to abide by it.
 
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