Today I just want to tell some british people using this forum that I would love to have Great Britain continueing in the EU.Not primary because GB is like Germany a net contributor. Allthough that matters as well. We pay for a good thing!

It's primary because GB represented positions not far away from ours and some more nations in the middle and north of the EU. So I think we loose an important partner in the contest of different interests within the EU. Nations with different interests become stronger, we become weaker - without you. That's a pity. And it's primary because I think that we all need a strong united Europe, otherwise we all will end as a matchfield of the United States and China one day, having no power to oppose the if necessary. I don't mention Russia because I think Russia should finally be a part of the European House as well.

I don't think that GB will have advantages outside the EU. You may be able to reduce the number of immigrants. But that is something more and more wanted in other European Nations as well, even here in Germany. I think we should always help people that are in danger somwhere, maybe by giving them a new life in Europe. But we should try to keep other immigrants outside. Oh, I wish anyone a good economical situation. But we can't realize that for millions and other millions here in the EU. Their home countries must find a way to realize a better life for their people at home. And we should help them with that. I think that many british people voted for Brexit because of the immigrants. But we all have to face this problem and together we should find a way to solve it.

I don't think you will have a financial advantage outside the EU. You safe your net payments. But a reduced british economy will make you loose more than that. And you will have a reduced economy. The European Unions brings the best economy possible to its members and there will be no way to have the same alone. GB will never be another Sitzerland.

But an even bigger problem for GB will be the inner turmoil because only a small majority voted for the Brexit. And some local majorites against the Brexit will feel repressed in future. This is extrem in Scotia where a big majority voted against the Brexit. So the scotish people will feel repressed. The people of Northern Ireland. The people of London. You risk new violance in Ireland.

And: The not so intelligent people repress the more intelligent ones. Stupid thing, well this seems to be a not so nice aspect of Democracy somehow. And most important: Your older people repress your younger people. But the future is owned by the youth! The youth is connected with the world and more european. They grew up with the Interent. And they will not change. By the way: That's the reason why GB will leave the EU only for 10 years or 20 years at maximum. Then the older and more national orientated british people will be a minority and GB will come back anyway. But if GB can leave the EU only for a short time, why all the efforts and risks for just some years?

I am German, I live in Berlin. My nation caused a horrible war because of Nationalism. My home town was destroyed before I was born, but in my own youth I saw some rests of that. I am not totaly against nationalism, but it must be on a low level. Nationalism today should just say: Let's keep our home well and safe. But not more than this. No aggression. No isolation. No self-aggrandizement.

And maybe a new way of soft nationalism could grow: A common European nationalism with which we don't think "We, the British", or "We, the Germans" or spanish, italian and so far. One day it should be "We, the Europeans". Peaceful, succesful and strong togehther.

Germany has a special history very comparable to this. Maybe you don't know that Germany before 1870/71 was fragmented into many, many bigger and smaller little states. I think more than the european nations today. And it was not easy to unite them to Germany. There where many arguments and interests against that. But Germany was founded in those years and it was very, very successful then. Germany united had great years - until the wars began.

The whole world can learn two major lessons from German history:

1. Unification is good and brings success and prosperity.
2. Isolation and war is bad and brings destruction and poverty.

Do not look back. Look and go forward. Let us stay united. And let us be more united than ever before in 10 years.

That's the reason why GB will leave the EU only for 10 years or 20 years at maximum. Then the older and more national orientated british people will be a minority and GB will come back anyway. But if GB can leave the EU only for a short time, why all the efforts and risks for just some years?

Whilst interested in your views, Norbert, I foresee there will be no EU in a few years time, especially when other member countries see how GB will cope well on leaving.

Thank you for you post Norbet and for what sounds like genuine concern. I hope I can speak for most 'leave' voters when I say that we British do not have a problem with the people of Europe (despite some of the banter you might read) but with the idiots in charge who meddle in our affairs and give us what we see as a bad deal.

You are probably correct in that leaving the EU is now going to make things difficult for us but that has come about by those who could not accept the democratic vote, not our decision to leave.

Exactly.

The other thing, Norbert, is that many of us foresee the EU collapsing in a matter of a few years. The signs of discontent are already visible when you look at certain, mainly Mediterranean, countries.

As far as I'm concerned, if and when the EU does break up and if, by some miracle, a new EEC-type free-trade organisation should replace it, I would certainly vote to join.

However, it must never again become a political dictatorship.

We had that if I remember ... was called the EEC .... but then unelected elite morphed it by stealth into what we see today but yes possibly if a Europe built on trade was to rise from the ashes then I imagine everyone would go along with it but right now , today ... that is a far cry from the club we are leaving

Yes, of course.

If Major had called a referendum on the matter, it is possible that we might not have been dragged into the EU.