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22-11-2020, 08:09 PM
291

Re: Senior Home Office official QUITS after vicious rows with Priti Patel

Originally Posted by Zaphod ->
You really should learn the difference if you do not know it between a public appointment and a civil service appointment, especially after I gave you the required information.
Basically a public appointment would have been employed by parliament, not by a minister which makes someone a Crown employee - a civil servant.

Besides which it is also indisputable fact that Allan was a civil servant of long-standing who has seen confrontation with ministers before; are you really suggesting him capable of real impartiality?
When so many (as I have shown you) are not?

What you, I or anybody else thinks though is of absolutely no consequence.
What counts is what Boris thinks, and he did not agree with Lord Allan.

If as I suggested a truly independent person had looked into matters the outcome could well have been different.
But when a civil servant investigates other civil servants and appears to side with those without even meeting the defendant it puts any determination by the investigator into suspicion.
That may be unfounded, but IMHO Allan walked straight into that one and the outcome was to be expected.

I personally am not surprised when one employed for so long in intelligence services did not have the intelligence to keep his own address, telephone number and details of family and friends private and instead published them on the web for all to see.
You really don't like this guy. As far as I am aware this role (appointed by Boris himself) isn't part of any ministerial department because it is meant to be outside of that system.

There are no details of how this chap was initially appointed during Cameron's time or his contract etc.

But the main thing is that you have absolutely no evidence of any bias on his part. Just a feeble unsubstantiated argument that because he was part of the civil service he is unable to be objective. If he was so rubbish why did Boris hang on to him?
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23-11-2020, 11:16 AM
292

Re: Senior Home Office official QUITS after vicious rows with Priti Patel

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
You really don't like this guy.
Untrue.
I do not know him.
What I do not like is what he represents: a cabal of the self-serving and power-hungry that could not make it in the real world.

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
As far as I am aware this role (appointed by Boris himself) isn't part of any ministerial department because it is meant to be outside of that system.There are no details of how this chap was initially appointed during Cameron's time or his contract etc.
If you want to carry on with your belief that at the time he quit he wasn't a civil servant, that's fine by me because it is your own ignorance that is on display by doing so.

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
But the main thing is that you have absolutely no evidence of any bias on his part. Just a feeble unsubstantiated argument that because he was part of the civil service he is unable to be objective. If he was so rubbish why did Boris hang on to him?
Why do you keep ignoring what I am telling you?

It makes no difference what you or I think.
Only Boris can decide - and he has.


As for me, I don't need to open my eyes to see the sky.
I don't need to see what policies my MP approves of if he/she is Labour or Tory.
I don't need to be a genious to know that just as a Brexiteer supports Brexit or a Democrat supports Biden, so a long-term civil servant will support colleagues.
Again (because you insist on ignoring this) there is nothing independent about one civil servant investigating other civil servants.

Yet again (because again you ignore what I keep saying) these are not my thoughts alone as this from my earlier link states very clearly:
"Sir Alex Allan is proving the subject for negative briefings as well, with pro-government sources pointing out son-of-a-lord Allan is a former PPS to Blair and Major – “Independent my arse”. Allan’s resignation is hardly a great loss to the government either; in 2012, Labour MP Paul Flynn called on the mandarin to resign after it emerged that after five months in the well-paid role had yet to be called on to undertake an inquiry. His predecessor Sir Philip Mawer conducted just one investigation during his three-and-a-half-year tenure."


Why has Boris kept him on?
Because you can't easily get rid of a senior civil servant.
Instead you let them see the error of their ways and quit.
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23-11-2020, 11:27 AM
293

Re: Senior Home Office official QUITS after vicious rows with Priti Patel

Boris Johnson 'will DEMOTE Priti Patel over asylum crisis': Under-fire Home Secretary is predicted to be made Tory chairman in reshuffle following bullying row

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-chairman.html

Priti Patel could face the axe as Home Secretary and be made Tory chairman in a New Year reshuffle, it was claimed yesterday.

Boris Johnson had stuck his neck out to save her from the sack last week after she was found to have bullied civil servants. But there is now speculation that he could demote her amid questions over her competence and failure to deal with the Channel migrants crisis.

Further details of Miss Patel's behaviour also emerged yesterday, with claims of multiple examples of 'shouting, screaming and swearing'.

Policing minister Kit Malthouse, who is a confidant of the PM, is favourite to take over, the paper reported. Michael Gove and Dominic Raab are also understood to be in the frame.
Sources did not deny the reports yesterday, but said that conversations about a reshuffle were far too premature.
Where there's smoke, there's fire .....
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23-11-2020, 11:27 AM
294

Re: Senior Home Office official QUITS after vicious rows with Priti Patel

Originally Posted by JBR ->
It will be interesting next year to look back at all of these prophesies of doom assuring us that Boris will suffer.

We shall see.

An optimistic outlook would see us leaving the EU and trading very successfully on WTO rules, more trade deals being successfully arranged with our friends (and I exclude the Frogs from that group, of course), and a definite reduction in Covid infections and deaths both through a vaccine and sensible behaviour of the people.

I'd also like to see the end to this wasteful and pointless HS2 nonsense!
I think that the HS2 stories are, merely, a diversion (with a financial objective).

Something to kill off, with a suitable fanfare of trumpets, next year.

The DT is, also, talking about the Gov's plans about re-nationalisation of the Railways, in today's edition.

Something political going on Railway wise.

(at last)

Maybe they're now on the right track!

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23-11-2020, 11:51 AM
295

Re: Senior Home Office official QUITS after vicious rows with Priti Patel

Originally Posted by Omah ->
Boris Johnson 'will DEMOTE Priti Patel over asylum crisis': Under-fire Home Secretary is predicted to be made Tory chairman in reshuffle following bullying row
Where there's smoke, there's fire .....
Unless the smoke comes from the Daily Fail ..... er sorry, Daily Mail.


The Telegraph has this:
"Priti Patel shakes up antiquated work practices at Home Office"
That doesn't suggest a reshuffle.
And Norman Tebbit says this:
"it sounds to me as though those officials may not like being given orders by a woman. Even worse she ordered them to deal more firmly with the criminals on the streets and the trade in illegal immigration into the United Kingdom.
I am sure that, if I had been Home Secretary, then I as a working class Thatcherite would have been treated in the same as was Priti Patel."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...r-priti-patel/
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23-11-2020, 12:32 PM
296

Re: Senior Home Office official QUITS after vicious rows with Priti Patel

Originally Posted by Tedc ->
I think that the HS2 stories are, merely, a diversion (with a financial objective).

Something to kill off, with a suitable fanfare of trumpets, next year.

The DT is, also, talking about the Gov's plans about re-nationalisation of the Railways, in today's edition.

Something political going on Railway wise.

(at last)

Maybe they're now on the right track!

I hope so. Billions have already been wasted on it and many people kicked out of their homes. A disgusting waste of money and unnecessary disruption to people's lives.

As for renationalisation of the railways, yes. At present, each company is making money out of the system and providing an unnecessarily complicated system of ticketing in the hope that people will unknowingly pay for higher priced tickets when cheaper alternatives are available.
I think you need a research degree in order to find the cheapest tickets these days.
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23-11-2020, 12:35 PM
297

Re: Senior Home Office official QUITS after vicious rows with Priti Patel

Originally Posted by zaphod ->
unless the smoke comes from the daily fail ..... Er sorry, daily mail.


the telegraph has this:
"priti patel shakes up antiquated work practices at home office"
that doesn't suggest a reshuffle.
And norman tebbit says this:
"it sounds to me as though those officials may not like being given orders by a woman. Even worse she ordered them to deal more firmly with the criminals on the streets and the trade in illegal immigration into the united kingdom.
I am sure that, if i had been home secretary, then i as a working class thatcherite would have been treated in the same as was priti patel."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...r-priti-patel/
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23-11-2020, 01:05 PM
298

Re: Senior Home Office official QUITS after vicious rows with Priti Patel

Originally Posted by Zaphod ->
Untrue.
I do not know him.
What I do not like is what he represents: a cabal of the self-serving and power-hungry that could not make it in the real world.


If you want to carry on with your belief that at the time he quit he wasn't a civil servant, that's fine by me because it is your own ignorance that is on display by doing so.


Why do you keep ignoring what I am telling you?

It makes no difference what you or I think.
Only Boris can decide - and he has.


As for me, I don't need to open my eyes to see the sky.
I don't need to see what policies my MP approves of if he/she is Labour or Tory.
I don't need to be a genious to know that just as a Brexiteer supports Brexit or a Democrat supports Biden, so a long-term civil servant will support colleagues.
Again (because you insist on ignoring this) there is nothing independent about one civil servant investigating other civil servants.

Yet again (because again you ignore what I keep saying) these are not my thoughts alone as this from my earlier link states very clearly:
"Sir Alex Allan is proving the subject for negative briefings as well, with pro-government sources pointing out son-of-a-lord Allan is a former PPS to Blair and Major – “Independent my arse”. Allan’s resignation is hardly a great loss to the government either; in 2012, Labour MP Paul Flynn called on the mandarin to resign after it emerged that after five months in the well-paid role had yet to be called on to undertake an inquiry. His predecessor Sir Philip Mawer conducted just one investigation during his three-and-a-half-year tenure."


Why has Boris kept him on?
Because you can't easily get rid of a senior civil servant.
Instead you let them see the error of their ways and quit.
A really robust and convincing argument and what a highly esteemed source! Checkout the headline "rishi dodges question of whether he will accept Mp pay rise" on the same blog.
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23-11-2020, 01:16 PM
299

Re: Senior Home Office official QUITS after vicious rows with Priti Patel

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
A really robust and convincing argument and what a highly esteemed source! Checkout the headline "rishi dodges question of whether he will accept Mp pay rise" on the same blog.
In combination with the other respected sources posted and including those of our own Prime Minister & other elected MP's it is far more convincing than a blind refusal to accept that Sir Allan was indeed a civil servant.
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23-11-2020, 01:20 PM
300

Re: Senior Home Office official QUITS after vicious rows with Priti Patel

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
A really robust and convincing argument and what a highly esteemed source! Checkout the headline "rishi dodges question of whether he will accept Mp pay rise" on the same blog.
Boris has just reiterated his support for Pritti Patel Annie !!
And at the same time he has sent a letter to all MPs laying out
the policy for dealing with employees ?
So it seems his mind is made up!!
There is a new thread started dealing with MPs salaries !

Donkeyman! 👍😀😀👍
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