Re: Flu jab 2018 booked

Yep Annie. These numbers:

ONS Data
Deaths caused by Flu (ICD category J09)

2009 - 78
2010 - 37
2011 - 109
2012 - 76
2013 - 140
2014 - 86
2015 - 274
2016 - 313
2017 - 454

We've gone from a position of less than 50 deaths per year in 2010 to over 450 deaths last year. MIllions of people received their flu shots in that time and yet despite this the mortality rate has risen and is still rising. That doesn't reflect well on the effectiveness of the flu vaccine TBH.

And your point is what exactly?

Flu and other vaccines are a global issue. Global products. The vaccine manufacturers don't care which countries use their vaccines. The CDC is a powerful organisation and we have a powerpoint presentation from one of its directors instructing it's directors/medical industry to purposefully engage in an orchestrated "Campaign Of Fear" in order to boost demand for the flu vaccine. It's a terrible indictment of the vaccine industry. Literally frightening people into having flu shots. Just awful.

Re: Flu jab 2018 booked

Nope Galty, that's incorrect.

Flu DOES kill people. The ONS data above are deaths specifically caused by Flu.

Pneumonia also kills people.

Vulnerable people can get pneumonia at any time, sometimes after having flu, sometimes completely independently.

There are separate statistics for deaths specifically caused by pneumonia. They are in the 60,000s each year.

If you have a strong immune system then you will be well placed to fight respiratory illnesses.

Re: Flu jab 2018 booked

There has been one. See the ONS numbers in the post above. Deaths caused by Flu are rising and have been since 2010.

Life expectancy has only risen by 5.5 years since 2010 (WHO : https://www.who.int/gho/mortality_bu...rends_text/en/)


It's only important to have the flu shot IF the flu shot actually prevents people getting the Flu. Unfortunately it doesn't. So, NO, it's the least bit important to have the Flu shot imho. In fact I'd say it was more important NOT to have the flu shot because:

1. It isn't going to stop any significant number of people getting the flu

2. It puts a cocktail of toxic chemicals into your body which is highly undesirable

3. It stretches/compromises your immune system for a period of time by forcing it to create antibodies to the vaccine active ingredients which then leaves a person more vulnerable to colds, other strains of Flu, ILI's, repsitratory illnesses and more.

4. It makes the vaccinated person spread flu (when they get it) 6 times more than unvaccinated people and thus is a major threat to the rest of society.

They receive an inactivated flu strain which means they can not DIRECTLY contract flu from the vaccine. Unfortunately having the vaccine weakens your immune system for a period leaving you MORE vulnerable to catching Flu and other conditions in that period.

People who have the flu vaccine WILL STILL catch flu.

The independent research by respected research institutions has looked at the results of 1000s of studies involving millions of people and have concluded that the flu vaccines help about 1 in 100 people vaccinated.

That means for every 100 vaccinated, 99 will receive little benefit but will have their immune systems weakened for a period of time and will put themselves at risk of some of the extremely serious side effects of the vaccines.

Personally I see no reason to put myself at such risk for a 1 in 100 chance that the vaccine might help me. In fact I think the entire vaccine program is utterly ridiculous as a result of that crazy situation.

Re: Flu jab 2018 booked

So we are back to the same few hundred deaths. How many of these people who died had been vaccinated? As others have mentioned there are many variables in such twisted stats.

The CDC is not relevant to most people here. Only one regular member is from the US. The US has a different approach to healthcare from the UK.

The main point is that since the vaccine was introduced flu mortality has (in your words) "flat lined". You don't have a valid argument to counter that this is because of the combined effect of flu vaccination and the widespread availability of antibiotics for secondary infections which can be caused by flu (sepsis, pneumonia and myocarditis).

Re: Flu jab 2018 booked

NO Annie. The Flu mortality rates had been reduced to a tiny level BEFORE ANY FLU VACCINE WAS ROLLED OUT.

The vaccine therefore was nothing at all to do with that major leap forward.

What you are trying to do, farcically imo, is attribute the flu vaccine to the ongoing ability to keep the mortality rates at those established levels.

It's a nonsense.

The medical industry was on top of the Flu by 1945/6. It had introduced better standards, better hygiene, better protocols, quarantine measures and so on. Vaccine or no vaccine those levels had been achieved.


I don't need a valid argument to refute pure supposition and hypothesis on your part. You could equally say that due to global warming the flu mortality rates were kept in check.

It behoves YOU the claiming party, to provide the studies and independent research that shows the effectiveness of the flu vaccine. And unfortunately that evidence doesn't exist, and what little supportive data we find, is completely biased rubbish that was funded by the vaccine manufacturers. Against this is a plethora of evidence from independent, ruthlessly independent research bodies like Cochrane that have studied the vaccines and concluded they are useless.

Re: Flu jab 2018 booked

It actually behoves you to accept we are allowed a different opinion and allowed to treat our bodies as we wish, as they work best for us. Statistics can be made to mean anything so personal experience in health matters are what many of us go by these days.

Re: Flu jab 2018 booked

Realist ...Regardless of all your careful gathered and figures I don’t believe many doctors would agree with your opinion on flu vaccine. It’s common knowledge the benefits of vaccination in the prevention of disease.
Flu variants are many the jab can’t protect against all forms however it’s aimed against the most common types around at that moment in time .... here’s what the nhs have issued

Flu vaccine is the best protection we have against an unpredictable virus that can cause unpleasant illness in children and severe illness and death among at-risk groups, including older people, pregnant women and those with an underlying medical health condition.
Studies have shown that the flu vaccine will help prevent you getting the flu. It won't stop all flu viruses and the level of protection may vary, so it's not a 100% guarantee that you'll be flu-free, but if you do get flu after vaccination it's likely to be milder and shorter-lived than it would otherwise have been.
There is also evidence to suggest that the flu vaccine can reduce your risk of having a stroke.
Over time, protection from the injected flu vaccine gradually decreases and flu strains often change. So new flu vaccines are produced each year, which is why people advised to have the flu vaccine need it every year too.

Re: Flu jab 2018 booked

Agrees with Julie .

Re: Flu jab 2018 booked

After well nigh on fifty pages of facts and opinions it's beyond my comprehension why a bunch of adults can't each post,
"Thanks for the discussion and for your interesting contribution"...

and then stop posting!!!!

Re: Flu jab 2018 booked

Hi Julie

You are welcome to your opinion, everyone is. However you should expect at times that your opinions and views will be challenged. You are currently posting in the more serious Debates/Discussions section of the forum. It's not casual chit chat.

You can find the forum Discussion Guideline here:

https://www.over50sforum.com/showthread.php?t=9124

They state:

"As the cliché goes, attack the ball, not the player. When someone gives an opinion about which you feel strongly, you may deconstruct it, dissect it and even disparage and denounce it"

AnnieS made a supposition/hypothesis about the reason why flu mortality deaths remained steady after the point when mortality rates had been brought right down before any vaccine had ever been used.

As I stated, it behoves AnnieS to provide evidence for her hypothesis.

You need to understand this is nothing personal. In debate/discussion we toss around ideas and facts and challenge them and there is an expectation that claims and statements are backed up with evidence and that as participants we should provide links to the source references for such evidence.

In such debates opinions like:

"My old grandpa smoked all his life and lived to 101 so cigarettes aren't bad for you"

is anecdotal and unhelpful in the context of serious discussion. It is a view, an opinion, unquestionably but in debate we look for more concrete meaningful data and information covering sample sizes that have statistical relevance.

Equally a discussion participant who simply says :

"Well I just believe X and whilst I can't prove it and whilst I have no data to back it up that's my opinion so there !"

is largely unhelpful to a debate. It adds nothing to the table and serves to distract the discussion.