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JBR
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21-11-2019, 01:13 AM
11

Re: WTO out the Window?

Originally Posted by Bruce ->
How would you feel if your biggest trading partner the EU decided on a, say, 25% tariff on the import of British goods after Brexit over that imposed on any other non member nation?
I'd impose a 50% tariff on German cars and French wine and cheese!

We can trade with anyone we want throughout the world.
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21-11-2019, 05:17 AM
12

Re: WTO out the Window?

Originally Posted by JBR ->
I'd impose a 50% tariff on German cars and French wine and cheese!

We can trade with anyone we want throughout the world.
Seeing how well Trump's tit for tat trade war with China is going do you think Britain would be more successful?

But there would be great opportunities for our wine and cheese and Asian cars.
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21-11-2019, 11:52 AM
13

Re: WTO out the Window?

Originally Posted by Bruce ->
Seeing how well Trump's tit for tat trade war with China is going do you think Britain would be more successful?

But there would be great opportunities for our wine and cheese and Asian cars.
As has been explained, we are a nett importer. It is to our advantage to pick and choose whom to export from.

Market forces.
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21-11-2019, 11:54 AM
14

Re: WTO out the Window?

Originally Posted by Bruce ->
WTO replaced GATT as I understand it and it protects trade against unfair tariffs, subsidies, cartel behaviour and dumping.

How would you feel if your biggest trading partner the EU decided on a, say, 25% tariff on the import of British goods after Brexit over that imposed on any other non member nation? What would be the remedy without the WTO?

China might have annoyed Trump but they are treated as a 'developing' nation under WTO rules and China didn't break any rules. Whether they should continue being treated as a developing nation is a moot point but they are not breaking WTO rules otherwise America would have the ability to take them before the WTO tribunal.

Eh ???

China has repeatedly breached international patents and copyrights and international property rights on US (and other countries) products (look at how they managed to get their satellites and space exploration up and running so quickly - it wasn't because they are great innovators is it ???). China is also one of the biggest polluters in the world and has serious human and animal rights violations, but still a huge economy ranking the 2nd biggest in the world). It got there by stealing other countries ideas and patents, treating its workers like shit and violating the WTO and climate regulations.

Since China joined the WTO (a big big mistake), they have consistently violated WTO rules by dumping steel in the USA and illegal restrictions on imports (among loads of other violations just look them up).

So ... since China joined the WTO it has done nothing but violate the WTO rules all members seem to (except the EU) follow, while the WTO pretty much turned a blind eye to China doing whatever it damn well likes. Thats why Trump is up in arms, why should the USA abide by the rules when China can steal its intellectual property rights, violate the WTO rules and the WTO does nothing about it, time and time again.

So Trump, quite rightly has stuck one on the WTO until they tow the line by telling them he will quit the Appellate body of the WTO rendering its disputes facilitation defunct ... its the Appellate body of the WTO that has not dealt with disputes fairly at all - and ignored a lot of them as far as the USA is concerned (and other countries).

So now we have China and USA trying to come to a deal outside the WTO because the WTO and its rules don't work bilaterally (as far as China is concerned) and has been quite frankly utterly useless.

Then we get to the EU and the USA where trump has stuck 10-25% tarrifs on EU imports. This is because of the illegal state subsidies of Airbus (under WTO rules) by Germany and France, making Boeing uncompetitive against the state subsidised Airbus planes. Just today, Airbus now overtake Boeing in the number of 737 vs A320 planes sold in the world. Totally unfair ....

I know the USA also state-subsidise certain manufacturing areas in the US but its nowhere near the eye watering level we see by China and the EU. So quite rightly, Trump has said, everyone plays fair or he will put America first and deal with the trade violators and the WTO Appellate body himself - and its working. Next will be tarrifs on EU cars into the USA to level the playing field.

Good on him I say, the only problem for the UK is we are still part of the EU trading tarrifs - not because we have done anything wrong but because we are still members of the shower of shit we voted to leave 3.5 years ago.

P.S.

When we leave the EU we will be the biggest single market for trade for the 27. We are its biggest export market while we are a member and are the least integrated with its single market.

I just thought I would add that. Because I felt like it...
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21-11-2019, 11:54 AM
15

Re: WTO out the Window?

Originally Posted by Bruce ->
Seeing how well Trump's tit for tat trade war with China is going do you think Britain would be more successful?

But there would be great opportunities for our wine and cheese and Asian cars.
No Brucy, uk could not be more successful than Trumpy with the
Chinese!
But if we manage to disentangle ourselves from the EU then we
would have the oppurtunity to purchase australian wines and cheese
etc without having the eu tariff applied to them!
The same applies to asian manufactured goods!
So uk will benefit in that respect?
A lot of people dont seem to realise that eu was cocieved to protect
mainly German and French producers from cheaper competitors
worldwide, hence the tarriffs.
However, things are likely to change soon as German manufacturers
have been establishing factories in these cheaper countries for
sometime now, Brazil, Mexico, South Africa and now China are
examples, so it is quite feasible that most manufaturing will take
place outside of Europe??
What price the EU then?
Regards Donkeyman!
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21-11-2019, 12:01 PM
16

Re: WTO out the Window?

Originally Posted by JBR ->
I'd impose a 50% tariff on German cars and French wine and cheese!

We can trade with anyone we want throughout the world.
As Bread has allready explained Brucy, UK is a nett importer and
so benefits from getting access to non tarriff countries goods
which we cant do at present!
Donkeyman!
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21-11-2019, 12:10 PM
17

Re: WTO out the Window?

Originally Posted by Bread ->
Good on him I say, the only problem for the UK is we are still part of the EU trading tarrifs - not because we have done anything wrong but because we are still members of the shower of shit we voted to leave 3.5 years ago.

P.S.

When we leave the EU we will be the biggest single market for trade for the 27. We are its biggest export market while we are a member and are the least integrated with its single market.
Yes, and after we leave and the EU impose heavy tariffs on their exports to us, who is that going to hurt the most?
(Rhetorical question)

Of course they want us to agree to Boris's/May's 'deal'!

Incidentally, who exactly runs the WTO?
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21-11-2019, 12:14 PM
18

Re: WTO out the Window?

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
No Brucy, uk could not be more successful than Trumpy with the
Chinese!
But if we manage to disentangle ourselves from the EU then we
would have the oppurtunity to purchase australian wines and cheese
etc without having the eu tariff applied to them!
The same applies to asian manufactured goods!
So uk will benefit in that respect?
A lot of people dont seem to realise that eu was cocieved to protect
mainly German and French producers from cheaper competitors
worldwide, hence the tarriffs.
However, things are likely to change soon as German manufacturers
have been establishing factories in these cheaper countries for
sometime now, Brazil, Mexico, South Africa and now China are
examples, so it is quite feasible that most manufaturing will take
place outside of Europe??
What price the EU then?
Regards Donkeyman!

China should be treated with great caution (see my post above). Its currently a cheap manufacturing base but a logistical nightmare for supply chain due to the volumes needed to fill containers for shipping etc. We tend to flood the market with chinese products then there is nothing for 2 months, then it gets flooded again - its because of how transport and logistics are arranged with huge cargo ships and containers rammed to the rafters of goods for the UK and Europe.

Check out the belt and road project in the EU - this should blow your head off on what's been developed under our noses as far as China is concerned. The EU direction of travel looks very much to the east, while to UK faces west. Another reason we should leave the EU. Have a look at Nord Stream 2 as well and what's happened with gas supplies for Germany etc.....

Productivity in China is also crap - workers output is very low compared to UK workers, due things like being treated appallingly, having no rights, low pay and live in squaller for the majority of factory workers.

On one hand the EU fanatics are saying we need the EU for workers rights, jobs and to prevent climate change, while on the other hand they promote China as a trading partner so they can sell out our manufacturing to the biggest polluter in the world, a country with no democracy, enormous human and workers rights violation and state rule. How many EU jobs are lost or not created because of moving manufacturing to China.... hmmm.

How hypocritical......
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21-11-2019, 12:51 PM
19

Re: WTO out the Window?

Hi

We are not so important that the EU will come running in any proposed Trade Deal.

UK exports account for 2.3% of the EU 27 GDP.

Yes, we run a massive deficit in goods but a surplus in Services.

We will still have to import goods until such time as we manufacture more here.

As much of our Industry is Foreign Owned we will be reliant on Foreign Owners to increase production here.
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21-11-2019, 01:24 PM
20

Re: WTO out the Window?

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->
Hi

We are not so important that the EU will come running in any proposed Trade Deal.

UK exports account for 2.3% of the EU 27 GDP.

Yes, we run a massive deficit in goods but a surplus in Services.

We will still have to import goods until such time as we manufacture more here.

As much of our Industry is Foreign Owned we will be reliant on Foreign Owners to increase production here.

We will be the EU's biggest single market for their exports - about 70% bigger than china.

If they don't want us to impose tariffs they should talk to us about a trade deal.
 
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