Re: Scotland, England and the EU

I f Scotland went their own way it's Scotland that would suffer.

There is a thread of an inferiority complex that runs through the Scottish psyche in it's political relationship with rUK ( England) and that feeds in to it's political standpoints.

You can see this in the childish antics of SNP members in Westminster by constant grandstanding, faux affrontery and puerile inclusion of swear words in to their speeches....The Glorious Resistance, ffs!!

The overbearing dominance of Westminster is felt in The West Country, Wales, The NEast, NWest and the Midlands as well as Scotland. It isn't a problem exclusive to the Scots.

It's probably the same in France, Spain, Italy etc and will be the same in Scotland post indy where the Central Belt will dominate the national discourse and the national budgets. The Borders , The West, The Highlands and the Islands and The Orkneys will all feel marginalised. No different post indy as now tbh.

The Scots can't square the circle of wanting to be ruled by Brussels and explaining why that is better than Holyrood/Westminster. No-one believes indy Scotland will have any Independence in the EU.

Scotland is currently running the worst Trade Deficit of any part of the UK.
Uk is -1.7% and Scotland -7%.

Indy Scotland would be taxed into oblivion if the SNP tries to deliver on all its promises, most of which actually benefit middle class voters i.e free prescriptions and free university fees .

Sturgeon has played the Brexit card really badly over the last two years, mainly because everything she says about the UK and leaving the EU makes her sound like a hypocrite when you then hold that against what she says about Scotland and leaving the UK.

She can snarl and snigger all she wants but there are many Scots that no more trust her than that slimy snake Salmond!

Re: Scotland, England and the EU

GERS figures explained



By Liam Furby, 22/08/18




Today the Scottish Government published Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland – or ‘GERS’ for short – for the year 2017-18.



GERS is produced every year and provides estimates of total public spending in Scotland, as well as tax receipts for the previous five years. It provides a snapshot of Scotland’s public finances – as part of the UK – but is far from the full picture.



Here’s what you need to know.



Scotland’s onshore economy grew by £2 billion in 2017-18



Onshore revenues - excluding North Sea revenues – increased by £2 billion between 2016-17 and 2017-18. North Sea revenue also grew from £266 million to £1.3 billion. Meanwhile, Scotland’s notional deficit fell by £1.1 billion in 2017-18 – a 10.8 per cent drop – and stood at 7.9 per cent of GDP.




Scotland’s economy is strong

•Scotland’s employment rate is increasing and unemployment is falling. On both youth and female employment, Scotland is outperforming the UK as a whole.


•Over the last year Scotland’s economy has grown faster than the UK as a whole.


•Scotland’s exports have increased by 44.7 per cent since the SNP came to office in 2007.


•Scotland is the top destination in the UK, outside London, for foreign direct investment.




Health and education spending remains higher than across the UK



GERS shows that the Scottish Government is investing £157 more per head than the UK Government on health, and £217 more on education.



The SNP Scottish Government is also investing more in growing our economy. Spending on economic development in Scotland is higher than the UK as a whole – to the tune of £109 per head.



And, when it comes to capital investment, which accounts for spending on public infrastructure like hospitals and schools, spending is £379 higher per head in Scotland than in the UK as a whole.



Scotland’s public finances are in line with the UK outside of London



Office for National Statistics figures show that Scotland’s revenue per head is the fourth highest of any UK nation or region.



GERS figures don’t take account of the impact of Brexit



Our long-term economic success is now threatened by Brexit - something that isn’t captured by GERS. Analysis published by the Scottish Government shows that leaving the EU could reduce Scottish tax revenues by between £1.7 billion and £3.7 billion a year by 2030. For the Scottish economy as a whole, it could cost up to £12.7 billion a year by 2030.



GERS tells us about Scotland’s finances within the UK and very little about the opportunities we can seize in an independent Scotland



Scotland is rich in human talent and natural resources. But we lack the economic levers to maximise growth in our economy, and invest according to our own priorities. Even after the Smith Commission powers are fully implemented, 71 per cent of taxes raised in Scotland will be controlled in Westminster.



The figures used also factor in UK government spending choices – for example on Trident – which would be entirely different under an independent Scottish Government. And, our ability to grow our population – and our tax base – is held back by UK government migration policy too.



In an independent Scotland, the Scottish Government could design policies that are tailored to Scotland’s – not the UK government’s – circumstances. Professor Graeme Roy - director of the Fraser of Allander Institute - has said: "If the very purpose of independence is to take different choices about the type of economy and society that we live in, then a set of accounts based upon the world today will tell us little about the long-term finances of an independent Scotland."



An independent Scotland could tackle the deficit we would inherit from the UK without austerity



We reject the Tories’ failed austerity economics. The Sustainable Growth Commission has shown that we can increase public spending year on year in real terms, while reducing the deficit inherited from the UK.



If the Commission’s proposals had been followed in the ten years to 2019-20, the Scottish Government’s budget would have gone up. Instead, Westminster will have cut £3.6 billion from Scotland’s budget by the end of the decade.



And all of this doesn’t take into account the opportunities of increased growth from an independent Scotland having an economic policy tailored to Scotland’s needs.

This is the real facts and not the crap the BBC has spouted.

Re: Scotland, England and the EU

Jings! Couldn’t have put it better myself! Can I add the following:-
There is nothing contradictory about independent nations recognising their interdependence and choosing to pool some sovereignty for mutual advantage. The important words here are “independence “ and “choosing”. I know there are independence supporters who do not want to be part of the EU, I respect that, the point is we will be free to choose.

Re: Scotland, England and the EU

The difference being Scotland is part of a Union and a totally separate country...............the others are regions of England.
(with the exception of Wales)

Re: Scotland, England and the EU

Hi, and welcome.

I have to say, that was very well put Barry. Suffice to say, it was disclosed this week that every Scottish person now receives £1,600 per head more than the English taxpayer, I would imagine that even more sensible Scottish citizens would vote to remain in the Union if you were given another Referendum.

Re: Scotland, England and the EU

Okay, I've put my tin hat on!!

My personal view on Scottish Independence? Naive!

As I said above, Scotland receives so much more funding through the UK than it would through the EU and would be lucky to be able to join them anyway. If Scotland ever gained independence they would, as we all know, have to be approved by all 27 EU member states. Spain, who is having to fend off independence campaigns by regions such as Catalonia, would never agree to a breakaway country such as a newly independent Scotland having an easy entry and would use their veto every time. The same goes for Italy and France who are experiencing the same. I think Scotland would be a long time waiting, what would happen in the meantime? no more Barnett formula, tax rises. Regrets!! too late! Pride before a fall. Doesn't pay the bills though.

Re: Scotland, England and the EU

An interesting read, about how good Westminster is to us poor wee dependent Scots.

http://www.businessforscotland.com/w...service-costs/

Re: Scotland, England and the EU

I wonder if the nature of Scotland's scattered population and terrain has something to do with the so called higher costs involved.

What about similar areas in the rest of the UK ?

Re: Scotland, England and the EU

I don't know about other areas Bruv. I came across this and posted it. But yes I am quite sure you'd be able to find articles about Westminster and the area your meaning.
Anyway I'm not going to argue all this again as it made me feel quite ill last time when the independence vote was going on, the bile coming from some on here was disgusting, and still very fresh in mine and other's memories.
What ever will be will be, as the song says.

Re: Scotland, England and the EU

Why the need for any angst?

If the Scots wants Independence .. why not? Nothing wrong with pride in your country. They've a rich history which even a sassenach enjoyed reading about at school.

I do however fail to see how they'd survive alone.
They couldn't survive now without the Barnett formula which generously allows them a disproportionate handout compared to English, Welsh or Irish.
In short, they receive more per head than any other 'nation' within the UK. The favoured 5 million? Hardly poor or second rate citizens now because of it.

Presumably they'd need the same financial safety net from the EU ... and as most Remainers suggest Britain is too small to survive alone as a stand alone country, the Scots would be in dire straights indeed.

Then there's the matter of the 'Lothian Question'
There was talk of adjusting this. Part of a sweetener deal between Cameron and Sturgeon to prevent further Scottish Independence referendums. Has it been adjusted?

Why should English be dictated to by Scots, N. Ireland and Welsh MP's voting on English affairs.
Famous example ... didn't Scottish MP's vote against student fees in their own Scottish Parliament but then come down to England and vote that English students did had to pay them?
(I'd love someone to tell I've got that wrong as it sounds particularity Machiavellian and hypocritical).

If I wanted to be as bolshie I could demand an English Parliament down at Westminster and English Independence... and bar all other MP's bar the English.

Despite all that I rather like the Scots.