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JBR
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JBR is offline
Cheshire, UK
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 32,785
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07-05-2021, 10:11 PM
21

Re: Frexit

Originally Posted by Cinderella ->
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...Union-Brussels

That's all any fishermen want, this latest spate is the failure of EU.
I don't disagree that all of these problems are as a result of our joining the EU, but there's more to it than that.

Let's assume that the Frogs do leave the EU. Won't they still want to fish in our territorial waters?
They have already depleted their own waters and the Mediterranean sea is similarly lifeless for the same reason.

The North Sea, owned mainly by us and the Norwegians still retains a good amount of fish. The Norwegians won't allow the Frogs to have theirs, but like good little Englishmen we still allow them to ruin our waters.

Remember that our fishermen lost their livelihoods due to an alliance between Heath and the EU.
Are they going to be allowed to restore what they had?
We have the opportunity.
All it needs is another strong PM like Maggie. She would certainly tell the Frogs to bugger off.
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Melton,United Kingdom
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08-05-2021, 10:24 AM
22

Re: Frexit

Originally Posted by JBR ->
Yes, I can see how such a system might make our democracy more democratic!

However, would replacing our representatives in parliament, who are currently experienced in the art of politics, with men and women off the streets be necessarily a working solution?

Would our replacement 'politicians' be up to the job? What sort of people would we choose? Businessmen? Trendy-lefty teachers? Union shop stewards? UKIP members? Struggling single women with seven children?

You see the potential problems?

Perhaps a more workable solution might be to replace the useless old-people's home on the other side of the Palace of Westminster with a sortitionally-elected body.

The Commons could discuss matters first, as at present, and the ideas they arrive at could then pass to the 'Lords' (or 'People's Parliament') for them to agree or disagree with the proposals.

The 'Sortition' parliament would be less likely to initiate proposals, as that would require a majority decision and there's no way of guessing who would agree with whom.

But if they were given the right to decide democratically within themselves on whether a Bill should be passed or rejected, that could relate to a decision by the country's population in general as to whether they really want what the Commons propose.

If rejected, the Bill would go back to the Commons for alteration, as at present but with the difference that the Lords are far more likely to be led entirely by their own self interest.

Perhaps others might comment on the viability of this idea or, preferably, come up with a better idea.

You mean replace the HOL with a house of beggars ??
I don't see why not JBR ??
Then we would get the views from the other end of the spectrum
of society??
But hold on!
Isn't that what the HOC is supposed to be??

Donkeyman! 🤔🤔🤔
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08-05-2021, 11:38 AM
23

Re: Frexit

Originally Posted by JBR ->
I don't disagree that all of these problems are as a result of our joining the EU, but there's more to it than that.

Let's assume that the Frogs do leave the EU. Won't they still want to fish in our territorial waters?
They have already depleted their own waters and the Mediterranean sea is similarly lifeless for the same reason.

The North Sea, owned mainly by us and the Norwegians still retains a good amount of fish. The Norwegians won't allow the Frogs to have theirs, but like good little Englishmen we still allow them to ruin our waters.

Remember that our fishermen lost their livelihoods due to an alliance between Heath and the EU.
Are they going to be allowed to restore what they had?
We have the opportunity.
All it needs is another strong PM like Maggie. She would certainly tell the Frogs to bugger off.

You've hit the nail on the head JB . "They will still want to fish our
waters ",
The problem is that their numbers have grown since the EU was
formed, due to France and Holland etc getting preference in quotas
and territory from the CFA!
Now they are too many to make a living in their own waters ??
For instance, not long ago, there were about seventy French boats
allowed to fish in Jersey's waters under a special agreement, just
now , three hundred boats were claiming licences to fish those
same waters !!So, if the froggy fisherman's claims that 80% of their
fishing fleet will become redundant are true, then that is exactly
what needs to happen to put things right !!
After all ,they didn't complain when british fishermen were becoming
redundant not so long ago did they ???
On top of all that, they tend to fish untill there are no fish left to
fish for, and then move on to another area to do the same again !!

Donkeyman! 🤔🤔
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Sudbury, United Kingdom
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 10,656
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08-05-2021, 11:58 AM
24

Re: Frexit

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
You've hit the nail on the head JB . "They will still want to fish our
waters ",
The problem is that their numbers have grown since the EU was
formed, due to France and Holland etc getting preference in quotas
and territory from the CFA!
Now they are too many to make a living in their own waters ??
For instance, not long ago, there were about seventy French boats
allowed to fish in Jersey's waters under a special agreement, just
now , three hundred boats were claiming licences to fish those
same waters !!So, if the froggy fisherman's claims that 80% of their
fishing fleet will become redundant are true, then that is exactly
what needs to happen to put things right !!
After all ,they didn't complain when british fishermen were becoming
redundant not so long ago did they ???
On top of all that, they tend to fish untill there are no fish left to
fish for, and then move on to another area to do the same again !!

Donkeyman! 🤔🤔

We should implement the 2020 UK Fisheries Act in full now and tear up the TCA.
Donkeyman
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Melton,United Kingdom
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08-05-2021, 12:16 PM
25

Re: Frexit

Originally Posted by Bread ->
We should implement the 2020 UK Fisheries Act in full now and tear up the TCA.
But Boris signed it Bread,
Isn't it irrevocable ???
Boris has tied us for eternity !!!
I always thought that was his plan anyway ?

Donkeyman! 👎🤔👎
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JBR
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JBR is offline
Cheshire, UK
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 32,785
JBR is male  JBR has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
08-05-2021, 12:28 PM
26

Re: Frexit

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
You mean replace the HOL with a house of beggars ??
I don't see why not JBR ??
Then we would get the views from the other end of the spectrum
of society??
But hold on!
Isn't that what the HOC is supposed to be??
Well actually what I posted, and this 'sortition' idea, wasn't my idea as you can see.

My personal preference would be for a much smaller 'House of Lords' (or call it what you will) comprising no more than 100 (as opposed to the 800+ old people's home as at present). The Yanks manage with 100.

The members should be experts in various fields, all of which should work in an advisory capacity to the MPs in the House of Commons, pretty much as supposedly exists in the Lords BUT without all the dead wood who are there solely as a reward for supporting their ex-colleagues in the Commons and who, for the large part, seem to spend their 'working' day falling asleep between their free meals and drinks.

The existing House of Lords is nothing more than a corrupt reward system for those who have helped their respective political parties in the past.

Its replacement should be there as an advisory body comprising proven experts in fields important to the running of a country and should be as apolitical as possible.
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JBR
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JBR is offline
Cheshire, UK
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 32,785
JBR is male  JBR has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
08-05-2021, 12:36 PM
27

Re: Frexit

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
You've hit the nail on the head JB . "They will still want to fish our
waters ",
The problem is that their numbers have grown since the EU was
formed, due to France and Holland etc getting preference in quotas
and territory from the CFA!
Now they are too many to make a living in their own waters ??
For instance, not long ago, there were about seventy French boats
allowed to fish in Jersey's waters under a special agreement, just
now , three hundred boats were claiming licences to fish those
same waters !!So, if the froggy fisherman's claims that 80% of their
fishing fleet will become redundant are true, then that is exactly
what needs to happen to put things right !!
After all ,they didn't complain when british fishermen were becoming
redundant not so long ago did they ???
On top of all that, they tend to fish untill there are no fish left to
fish for, and then move on to another area to do the same again !!
Exactly.
If we had had a proper, pro-British leader, he would have kept to his word and we would have been completely free of the EU by the end of 2020.

Boris sold us out and, because of that, he has lost my vote.
In 2024 it will go to Reform UK, or 'none of the above'.

What do we do now?

Well, as I understand it, in 2025 despite signing this agreement we still have the right to take back what is ours.
Perhaps if Boris is gone by then, his replacement might be brave enough to to exactly that.
The alternative is for us to remain under EU control indefinitely and for our fishing areas to become devoid of fish.

It isn't just fish either. We should regain N. Ireland unless, of course, they, Scotland and even Wales really want to become independent.
If they do, fair enough. Let them go. England alone would be richer as a result.
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East Anglia, UK
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JBR's Avatar
JBR
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JBR is offline
Cheshire, UK
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 32,785
JBR is male  JBR has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
08-05-2021, 04:26 PM
29

Re: Frexit

Interesting.

These explain a great deal of the history of fishing from our perspective and demonstrate that the loss of our fishing vessels is largely due to not only the government's activities, but also the selling and purchase of our fisheries.

I'm not condemning nor supporting. All I'd like to see it the restoration of our fishing areas to our control.

If our own fishermen are willing and capable of utilising them in a way of maintaining their viability, then that should be supported and given priority.

If not, the government should consider allowing foreign vessels and companies to use our maritime territories, but under our control and in a monitored way so as not to kill the golden goose (to speak figuratively).
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Bread
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Bread is offline
Sudbury, United Kingdom
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 10,656
Bread is male  Bread has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
08-05-2021, 06:01 PM
30

Re: Frexit

No wonder Le Pen is gaining ground.

https://foxhole.news/2021/05/04/le-p...-going-to-win/
 
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