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10-01-2019, 03:57 PM
51

Re: Brexit - Can you ever please both sides?

Annie, if one wanted to compare, In the Scottish Independence Referendum, there was but one question. "Should Scotland be an Independent Country? there were only two answers that could be given - Yes or No.
Are you suggesting that the Scottish didn't really know what they were really voting for either? after all, apart from the canvassing that went on prior to the result, it still came down to a straightforward yes or no.
Of course you wouldn't assume they didn't know what they were voting for. So what gives any remain supporter the right to insinuate that those of us who voted to Leave didn't know why we put our cross next to Leave?
(apart from the usual unsubstantiated accusations).
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10-01-2019, 03:59 PM
52

Re: Brexit - Can you ever please both sides?

I'm not for a second referendum, just quoting what people are saying.
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10-01-2019, 04:02 PM
53

Re: Brexit - Can you ever please both sides?

Originally Posted by shropshiregirl ->
Annie, if one wanted to compare, In the Scottish Independence Referendum, there was but one question. "Should Scotland be an Independent Country? there were only two answers that could be given - Yes or No.
I don't know enough about the Scots referendum to be able to comment with any confidence. But I do reckon that were it not that Cameron was leading the EU referendum leave would not have won as there were many protest votes against him personally.
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10-01-2019, 04:04 PM
54

Re: Brexit - Can you ever please both sides?

Originally Posted by Realist ->
This is of course hogwash and you well know it ANnie.

What they really mean there is that they have had time to use media control to brainwash large portions of the populous and now feel more confident that if they "ask again" they will get the answer they want.

That entire precept is utter Billy BS.

Every General Election we have is totally predicated on the understanding that large portions of the populous have been fed and soaked with poilitical propaganda in order that they will vote a specific way. Whoever manages to run the best media campaign will essentially win the election.

We only have to look at the wholly duped and conned young electorate who fell for Commie Corbyn's and Looney Labour's totally false promises of wiping student debts and having free tuition fees.

The populous WILL ALWAYS BE MISINFORMED and purposely duped by political groups to make them vote a specific way. There will NEVER be any point where people are properly and fully informed and able to make a sound objective decision. THAT is how UK politics operates.

The referendum was no exception. Whether people were given true information or the right information or enough information is of no concern. They were asked Leave or Stay and they voted Leave.

End of.

The Remain camp should have perhaps spent more time trying to justify how good and positive Staying would be rather than spending all their campaign saying how bad Leaving would be.

Unfortunately for you, they didn't.

The result stands, and will continue to stand.

Misinformation is not an excuse for another referendum

Ignorance is not an excuse for another referendum

People not bothering to vote is not an excuse for another referendum

"We don't like the result", is not an excuse for another referendum


There simply can be NO SECOND REFERENDUM unless it is one that does not challenge the result of the previous referendum.

That people are continuing to pervert the democratic process is tragic and dispicable. They should be punished for it, just as you would be punished for trying to rig election votes.
I completely agree.

In addition to what you have said, there is also another factor which I am sure that the remainer-dominated authorities will play.

That is, the wording and even multiple options of a second referendum.

I have mentioned that possibility before, and suggested a specific format:

1. vote to accept May's deal to leave the EU; or

2. vote to remain in the EU as we are; or

3. vote for an unthinkable, unconscionable no-deal Brexit.

(Or words to that effect.)

Clearly, that would split the 'leave' vote as some leavers would be given the impression that a no-deal Brexit is 'too dangerous to be even considered' and, moreover, suggests that May's deal is an acceptable means of leaving the EU which many of us believe is nothing of the sort.
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10-01-2019, 04:58 PM
55

Re: Brexit - Can you ever please both sides?

The only way we avoid a hard brexit on 29 March is of parliament and the government agree to Mays deal, a second referendum, general election, extension to A50 or revoking A50.

I don't see it happening... We are out on 29 March.
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10-01-2019, 04:59 PM
56

Re: Brexit - Can you ever please both sides?

Originally Posted by Realist ->
This is of course hogwash and you well know it ANnie.

What they really mean there is that they have had time to use media control to brainwash large portions of the populous and now feel more confident that if they "ask again" they will get the answer they want.

That entire precept is utter Billy BS.

Every General Election we have is totally predicated on the understanding that large portions of the populous have been fed and soaked with poilitical propaganda in order that they will vote a specific way. Whoever manages to run the best media campaign will essentially win the election.

We only have to look at the wholly duped and conned young electorate who fell for Commie Corbyn's and Looney Labour's totally false promises of wiping student debts and having free tuition fees.

The populous WILL ALWAYS BE MISINFORMED and purposely duped by political groups to make them vote a specific way. There will NEVER be any point where people are properly and fully informed and able to make a sound objective decision. THAT is how UK politics operates.

The referendum was no exception. Whether people were given true information or the right information or enough information is of no concern. They were asked Leave or Stay and they voted Leave.

End of.

The Remain camp should have perhaps spent more time trying to justify how good and positive Staying would be rather than spending all their campaign saying how bad Leaving would be.

Unfortunately for you, they didn't.

The result stands, and will continue to stand.

Misinformation is not an excuse for another referendum

Ignorance is not an excuse for another referendum

People not bothering to vote is not an excuse for another referendum

"We don't like the result", is not an excuse for another referendum


There simply can be NO SECOND REFERENDUM unless it is one that does not challenge the result of the previous referendum.

That people are continuing to pervert the democratic process is tragic and dispicable. They should be punished for it, just as you would be punished for trying to rig election votes.
The referendum was not a general election

It was an advisory referendum. Did you not understand this when you voted? It was clearly defined in the 2015 European Referendum Bill if you had cared to read it

The only obligation on the government was that the result was considered when determining policy

It seems obvious tha the PM has considered the result hence her proposed deal with the EU

As the referendum was not legally binding parliamentary democracy prevails over the people and whatever is the outcome of the following vote and any further decisions will be in accord with the terms of the Bill as the result has been considered

As one possible option could be the revoking of Article 50 if Mays deal is rejected and parliament also rejects leaving without a deal than the only fair and equitable solution is to hold another referendum but this time legally binding

As Michael Gove and Farage have both said, leave would win by an even greater margin, what are you afraid of?
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10-01-2019, 05:04 PM
57

Re: Brexit - Can you ever please both sides?

Originally Posted by Banchory ->
The referendum was not a general election

It was an advisory referendum. Did you not understand this when you voted? It was clearly defined in the 2015 European Referendum Bill if you had cared to read it

The only obligation on the government was that the result was considered when determining policy

It seems obvious tha the PM has considered the result hence her proposed deal with the EU

As the referendum was not legally binding parliamentary democracy prevails over the people and whatever is the outcome of the following vote and any further decisions will be in accord with the terms of the Bill as the result has been considered

As one possible option could be the revoking of Article 50 if Mays deal is rejected and parliament also rejects leaving without a deal than the only fair and equitable solution is to hold another referendum but this time legally binding

As Michael Gove and Farage have both said, leave would win by an even greater margin, what are you afraid of?

The answer is always in the question on a second referendum. It would be a betrayal of the peoples decision and end up with the same result.

It would break democracy.

And it was legally binding because Cameron said the government will implement the decision if the people.

I never saw on the ballot the words " just for fun..."

Your chasing a unicorn
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10-01-2019, 05:08 PM
58

Re: Brexit - Can you ever please both sides?

Originally Posted by Bread ->
The answer is always in the question on a second referendum. It would be a betrayal of the peoples decision and end up with the same result.

It would break democracy.


And it was legally binding because Cameron said the government will implement the decision if the people.

I never saw on the ballot the words " just for fun..."

Your chasing a unicorn
Originally Posted by Banchory
It was an advisory referendum. Did you not understand this when you voted? It was clearly defined in the 2015 European Referendum Bill if you had cared to read it
Why would another referendum break democracy if the first one was only advisory and not legally binding?
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10-01-2019, 05:39 PM
59

Re: Brexit - Can you ever please both sides?

Originally Posted by itsme ->
Read the post, that is not what was stated.

In fact, over 23 million people did not vote to leave the EU,
Typical of the twisted bullshit you come out with.

I seem to remember there being only two options on the voting form - leave or stay in the EU.

There wasn't an option for sitting on the fence.
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10-01-2019, 05:41 PM
60

Re: Brexit - Can you ever please both sides?

Originally Posted by Fogey ->
Typical of the twisted bullshit you come out with.

I seem to remember there being only two options on the voting form - leave or stay in the EU.

There wasn't an option for sitting on the fence.

Brilliant !
 
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