Re: Flu jab 2018 booked

Is this thread going to keep running until flu jab time next year ? had mine so long ago now I've forgotten all about it.

Re: Flu jab 2018 booked

The "Bureau" is, funnily enough, called the UK Office for National Statistics. Where else do you think I would look? Your 'research' is obviously less rigorous than you think and seriously flawed.

You could start here:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ales2001to2016

Very different results to those you quote from the same bureau - once again demonstrating the dangers of amateurs with too much time on their hands being allowed to dabble with statistics.

There are many more including information about changes to criteria but I can't be bothered re-finding them for you. I have a life.

Re: Flu jab 2018 booked

Dear oh dear Brucey boy. It seems there is only one amateur here and it certainly isn't me !!

The data you link to there is a "User Request" which specifically asked for, and I quote . . .

"Number of deaths from influenza where it was recorded as the underlying cause of death or was mentioned on the death certificate"

Note the part in bold.

So it is a request asking for 2 separate things combined.

Now let's take a look at the data sets I provided which are the regular mortality reports from the ONS on a yearly basis. Those reports are based on, and again I quote . . .

"The cause of death reported in national- and regional-level mortality statistics represents the final underlying cause of death"

So here it's just asking for the ONE thing, the underlying cause.

Expecting the 2 sets of data to produce the same set of figures is ludicrous. One asked for cases for specific underlying cause of death, the other asks for the same PLUS any deaths where influenza wasn't the underlying cause but was also mentioned on the death certificate.


Once again, we can only marvel at your persistence and enthusiasm for trying to shoot down solid data and evidence despite the fact that you continue to fail rather epically to do so at every turn.

I guess it's back to the drawing board for you old son. Keep trying though as it's thoroughly entertaining !

Re: Flu jab 2018 booked

A few things.

First - I don't claim to be an expert yet, despite having no medical or statistical qualifications, you are giving out medical advice based on some statistics solely interpreted by you. The same statistics are used by the BMJ to come to dramatically different conclusions which you, with your tin foil logic, conclude must be a conspiracy.

Secondly - I merely gave you ONE piece of easy to find information to look at "to start you off" to show how statistics can vary, there are others but, as I said, I can't be bothered finding them all so you have to do your own dirty work.

If you had bothered to look at the tables I cited there were two. One detailing the 'Underlying Cause' the other separate one the 'Mentions' - an inconvenient fact that totally destroys your objection. You are just plain wrong (again).

Again you are a non medical person choosing to interpret medical data to suit your own skewed, paranoid idea of the world by nit picking.


My persistence is nothing compared to your ability to repeat ad nauseum the same psycho babble to the detriment of other's health. Perhaps you could count the number of posts you put in this thread alone and compare them to mine if you want to know about persistence.

If you chose to not have flu injections that's fine but you have no qualifications of any sort to tell others not to. You are using statistics which do not stand up to simple scrutiny (eg 2009 epidemic & those mentioned above).

Constantly assaulting people with these absurd claims of yours does not make you right it merely makes you a bore.

Re: Flu jab 2018 booked

Honestly I think you've lost the plot Bruce. This fervour for desperately trying to refute the plethora of evidence is clouding your judgement.


The figures that you linked to MATCH EXACTLY the individual yearly data sets that I provided you the links for.

To be clear, in YOUR data link, in TABLE 1 (where Influenza is the Underlying Cause) are recorded deaths in ICD categories J09 to J11 (as stated in the notes quite clearly).

These are the exact same figures you find in the separate individual yearly files that I provided links to IF you look at the same codes J09 to J11.

As we have previously highlighted the "bureau" as you like to call it, began separating out the J09 cases from J10/11 in 2009.

Personally I don't particularly care if you want to look at just J09 (Influenza due to certain identified Influenza virus) or J10/11 (Influenza)


The trend we see in either case is the same. An UPWARD trend. Flu deaths are GOING UP not down. The vaccine is useless.

The ONS Data once again:

Deaths in categories J09,J10/11 combined:

2009: 227
2010: 179
2011: 425
2012: 83
2013: 161
2014: 118
2015: 284
2016: 430


Deaths in just the category J10/11

2009 - 78
2010 - 37
2011 - 109
2012 - 76
2013 - 140
2014 - 86
2015 - 274
2016 - 313
2017 - 454


Back to drawing baord for you . . . . again !

Re: Flu jab 2018 booked

Let's get this straight - the figures I quoted as an example previously but which you decried as being "ludicrous" are now suddenly accurate? Make up your mind.

So what you are now claiming is that the recent increases in incidences of flu are not caused by the change in the data recording criteria but are in fact actually caused by the flu vaccinations themselves?

If you are to be believed then there is no other explanation - there has been no epidemics and presumably the NHS is not going out of its way to kill flu patients. It must be a conspiracy - we better get out our tin foil beanies.

Re: Flu jab 2018 booked

Ok this is getting really boring now with all the repetition. Fact is that there is absolutely no evidence that flu deaths are going up because of the vaccine. So there's no harm in having it.

There are far too many variables to say it's down to the vaccine not working. But something is definitely working because we have far fewer flu deaths than in the last century. I think that's down to the vaccine, Realist you think it's other factors. Let's agree to disagree and see what happens this season.

Re: Flu jab 2018 booked

Sounds reasonable to me because one of the main reasons deaths are going up IMO is antibiotics are no longer killing the infections people get with the flu. That's a really scary thing I believe.
Thanks for the laugh

Re: Flu jab 2018 booked

Hi Julie

It's been pointed out to you before, by others, that antibiotics have absolutely nothing to do with the flu. You appear to be still confused about that which is kinda worrying.

The Flu is a virus, not bacteria. Antibiotics have no effect on the Flu virus. They only treat bacteria.

The data that we have been discussing relates to the number of deaths in England and Wales where Flu was THE underlying cause of the death.

If you look at the data you will also be able to see that the number of deaths caused by for example, pneumonia are recorded separately.

You need to look properly at the figures and take on board what they are saying. The number of deaths where FLU was specifically THE UNDERLYING CAUSE is going UP year on year. Not Pneumonia, not ILIs (Influenza like illnesses), not chest infections, actual FLU.

The NHS and Big Pharma apologists here want to attribute those rather damning figures to something else, anything else, they don't really care just so long as it's not the flu vaccine.

As the quote goes:

“There are two ways to be fooled: one is to believe what isn’t true, the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”

Re: Flu jab 2018 booked

Yes let's.

You previously laughed at the ONS data I provided links to stating that:

"The bureau clearly states that these figures are not logged by 'specifically recorded' cause of death they are deaths recorded where "Flu was mentioned as one of the causes of the death"

Your statement was completely wrong as I have painstakingly set out in my posts. The figures DO show the number of deaths specifically caused by Flu.

You then tried posting up some other ONS figures from a "User request" which showed deaths where flu was the cause and deaths where flu was mentioned and tried to suggest that these were completely different to the figures that I had provided and that therefore none of these ONS figures could be trusted.

You were proved completely wrong . . . again . . . and I had to show you that both sets of ONS figures were in fact the same. You simply had gotten your knickers in a twist and failed to understand the ICD categories.

Really, when you are wrong, you should really man up and admit you are wrong for doing so is a sign of courage and strength.

I've made no comment at all on the "incidences of flu". I have simply provided ONS data that shows irrefutably that the number of deaths specifically caused by Flu in England and Wales has been going up, year on year.

It really isn't a difficult concept to understand and take on board imho.

I personally conclude from those figures that the Flu Vaccine is utterly useless for had it any efficacy at all the number of deaths caused by Flu would be going down not up.

I didn't need those figures to tell me that the vaccine was useless snake oil because there are already numerous impartial and reliable studies out there by international research groups like Cochrane who have concluded that the vaccines are useless.


The NHS is negligent in continuing to devote so much precious time and money towards the yearly flu vaccine campaigns. The vaccines are clearly useless and a waste of everybody's time. The money could be much better spent on say Mental Health.

As for the strapline about there having been no Flu epidemics since the last big one this has been dealt with before. The reasons there have not been any epidemics is nothing at all to do with vaccines. It's to do with massively increased hygiene protocols and quarantine protocols and similar improvements. The previous epidemic was also caused by large bodies of military personnel being moved about and because of many people being in cramped squalid conditions.

The first Flu vaccine was given to the military in 1945 and it was rolled out to the public in 1946. As the graph below clearly shows, the number of deaths attributable to Flu had already been brought under control well before the vaccine was implemented. It is therefore completely incorrect to suggest that the flu vaccine has prevented further epidemics.
It simply hasn't and it simply can't because the vaccines are useless, do not work and help only about 1 in every 100 people vaccinated. That's scientifically proven fact.