Re: Last Gasp Attempt !

For once I have to agree with Twizzle on this. Swim you voted for brexit and you should have known what that would mean given your extensive knowledge of how the government in the UK and how the civil service works. So I keep being surprised by some of your posts. It's not as though you were uninformed of the detail. Given your experiences of infrastructure and process inefficiencies why do you think this would be any different?

I voted remain for a number of reasons, but one reason was that there was absolutely no inkling of a plan as to how this would be implemented. I find it hilarious that some here tell me I am lacking in vision or being a pessimist. Yet they cannot provide any plan or confirm what will happen.

I am not one to cast aspersions about how informed voters were and I haven't wanted to get into that kind of dirty debate, but it is pretty short sighted to vote for something when you aren't sure there is a plan to implement it as you'd like to see it happen. People can't pretend to be unaware of our government's shortcomings in implementing domestic plans in the past so why did you think this would be any different?

What they should have done is to spend a lot longer planning the referendum and shaping how brexit would work and what they wanted from it. After the referendum they should have made it clear that they don't plan to implement for at least ten years (which is how long it would take to scope and plan all the intricate changes).

But the way it's taking shape is a pig's ear. So people can talk rainbows and castigate people like me for being negative, but I am a realist not a believer in fairyland. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, you can imagine it's something better but that's called dreaming. Emperor's new clothes and all that.

Re: Last Gasp Attempt !

Hi

We have Democracy.

It was a simple vote, in or out.

We voted out, the ordinary people did.

Not the Political Elite, the first chance in decades for ordinary people to have a choice.

They voted out.

Please respect that, it is the basis of our system, everyone is equal, Boris and Abbot get the same vote as I do, one vote.

I take great exception to you claiming the Moral High Ground.

I am intelligent, articulate and nobodies fool except when it comes to tall slim blondes.

My personal Nemesis.

They did not feature at all in my vote to Leave.

I simply did not want want to be part of a Federal Europe.

I want my vote to count

I would much rather stay in the EU than leave,

Unfortunately that is not an option, so I voted out.

I know it will hurt, I do not believe for one moment the promises of the Brexiteers.

You cannot bamboozle me with your insults Twizzle, I have a whole list of letters behind my name.

The beautiful thing about Democracy Twizzle is that my vote is no more important than that of any other.

I have the same rights, no more, and no less, than the Tractor Driver.

I will defend that until the day I die.

One Person, one vote, a principle I will never abandon.

We voted Out, Out we go.

Re: Last Gasp Attempt !

Hi

You are quite right Annie.

They did have a Plan, agreed before the Vote.

Both Government and Opposition thrashed it out, agreed it is was in the best option for Norway and went for it,

Norway now has the biggest Sovereign Wealth Fund in the World per head of population.

They are in the Single Market, but outside the EU.

They are subject to to ECJ rulings, which they simply ignore when it suits them.

Naff all happens to them

I would be very happy with a Norway or Switzerland agreement.

Unfortunately we have ruled them out.

Re: Last Gasp Attempt !

And therein lies the root of our problems today.


The Government, Remain heavy though it is, manfully chose to implement the 'Will Of The People' ( stressed for your contemplation as to it's significance) and implemented the poorly constructed and woefully unfit for purpose Article 50.

The opposition in the Remain camp chose not to engage with the Gov't , though asked.

It is they who have played in to the hands of the EU and emboldened their negotiators to adopt an intransigent and punitive stance.

No wonder some say they have betrayed their country

Re: Last Gasp Attempt !

I'm waiting for the positive argument to Remain.....

Re: Last Gasp Attempt !

Hi

I disagree.

The Government had a clear Majority and a Mandate to leave.

They chose to press the button, institute Article 50 when we where in no way ready to leave.

The bluff has been called, ended up with a £40 Billion bill, twice as much as the cost of Austerity.

Other Countries now know we desperately need Trade Deals.

They are playing hard ball and we have no response.

Even a tinpot country like Ireland has got us over a barrel.

Once again our Politicians have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

It is the charge of the Light Brigade all over again.

Re: Last Gasp Attempt !

I absolutely disagree.

There is NO WAY the Govt could have delayed Article 50. It was the express will of the people by a majority vote in a legal and binding democratic plebiscite.

Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed......The words of Juncker ERGO.....there is no $40billion bill nor does the Emerald Isle have us over a barrel with an evil glint in it's eye!

We are not permitted by the letter of the law to arrange trade deals....you accepted that in a previous thread so why promulgate the notion that we should have them signed by now. WE CANNOT SIGN TRADE DEALS UNTIL AFTER MARCH 2019.......That is the deal and you know it.

I contend the attitude of the EU is directly related to the lack of co-operation from the Remainers in the UK.......There are plenty who agree with that.

You are obsessed with blaming the Govt. You have an axe to grind and it colours your views and your views and your rants are swamping this Brexit forum.

Re: Last Gasp Attempt !

Bottled out, just as I thought you would.

Re: Last Gasp Attempt !

To be fair Swim the politicians have had their work cut out in an unprecedented way. There was no planning for this change and then when the result came out they were under massive pressure from both the EU and businesses to make a decision on launching Article 50.

This is not the sort of thing to research after the event, but that's exactly what the government had to to do after the vote. They were having select committees to try to work out the impact after the decision was made. That's a really mad way to implement policy.

I blame Cameron totally and where is he? Pictured last year languidly drinking artisan coffee in his shorts and flip flops in some cafe.

Re: Last Gasp Attempt !

1. a massive trading zone for business
2. Standardisation of systems (legal, financial, commercial etc) to give business assurance of a level playing field and security of transactions.
3. Reduced transaction costs
4. One organisation negotiating with the rest of the world has far bigger clout to get good deals than a little fish like us.
5. Cooperation on security, scientific research, energy the environment.
6. Freedom to travel across the EU without having to queue up at every border. Free phone roaming since last year.
7. The ability to go and retire in any EU country without losing out on healthcare etc.
8 cheap and plentiful fruit, veg and other foods.
9. Cheap and plentiful labour for our manufacturers (who incidentally cannot recruit decent workers here for some reason_
10. Clout as a trading block in an increasingly global market.

I was watching a webinair today on Agile finance today and one of the big issues of the day is "economic nationalism" an interesting term I'd never heard before. The view of the presenter was that this is just a blip which will not reverse the relentless pace of globalisation.

So Brexit is just a symptom of a recent trend in "economic nationalism" - a pathetic attempt to cling to a nostalgic past that has long disappeared. It's just a block to progress and it's like Canute trying to stop the waves.