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JBR
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11-01-2019, 11:06 AM
81

Re: Brexit - Can you ever please both sides?

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->
Hi

We are a divided Nation and this is not going to be resolved any time soon.

A sad stage of affairs, but we are where we are.
We have been a divided nation for decades; probably ever since the war, which is the last time everyone pulled together.
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11-01-2019, 11:06 AM
82

Re: Brexit - Can you ever please both sides?

Originally Posted by Aerolor ->
Of course it will Bruce. When there is little margin between leave and stay, how could there ever be agreement reached. IMO as the referendum was not legally binding anyway, we should abandon the whole thing, at least for the time being. Give Jo Public more information and/or education about the whole process (not simply ask shall we leave or stay). When everyone has had the chance to be well informed and truly know what they are in for (warts and all on both sides) then another referendum can be held with everybody's eyes wide open. In the meantime, I think this country needs to get back to some sort of normality. This Brexit rubbish is tearing our country apart.
My Bold!

Do we know what "normality" is?

We have to understand that the Brexit issue has provided a fair bit of education on the quality of the people who undertake the Management, of our Country, on our behalf.

Are they inept only in terms of Brexit? Or are they inept in practically everything they do?

For sure, the big referendum gave us some hope that Parliament listened to the thoughts of the voters.

Events, since then, have been much more likely to educate us that they listened - but did not act accordingly.

We don't have to talk about how disgusted the Leavers are with the Government.

What we should worry about is the way the remainers are supporting the Government act of kicking everything back along the road - to the point where nothing will happen.

Remainers need to think - if you support the government in doing this obfuscation, the next time there is a big decision to be made, they (the government) will do the same to you.

Additionally, the public will never be asked their opinion, about anything, ever again. It's pointless.

Finally, those who are saying that they will not vote Tory at any forthcoming election were not kidding.

What's the point, they will ask, of voting, at all, if MPs go off and do whatever suits them anyway.

"You sow what you shall reap".
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11-01-2019, 11:16 AM
83

Re: Brexit - Can you ever please both sides?

Originally Posted by Tedc ->
Are they inept only in terms of Brexit? Or are they inept in practically everything they do?

What we should worry about is the way the remainers are supporting the Government act of kicking everything back along the road - to the point where nothing will happen.

Remainers need to think - if you support the government in doing this obfuscation, the next time there is a big decision to be made, they (the government) will do the same to you.

Additionally, the public will never be asked their opinion, about anything, ever again. It's pointless.

Finally, those who are saying that they will not vote Tory at any forthcoming election were not kidding.

What's the point, they will ask, of voting, at all, if MPs go off and do whatever suits them anyway.

"You sow what you shall reap".
Well said.

Clearly, the government are inept in everything they do, not only Brexit. Look around you at the state of the country: transport, health, police, etc, etc.

I wonder whether the remoaners are even aware of what you say about the government ignoring the will of ordinary people. For them, the government are playing right into their hands, but next time?

You're completely right about there being no point in voting in any future referendum, even if they decide to hold one again.

In fact, I'm not sure there's any point in voting in any future general election either: they're all as bad as each other.
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11-01-2019, 11:24 AM
84

Re: Brexit - Can you ever please both sides?

It seems from the analyses that the proportion of leave voters was much higher in the 50 plus age range. Younger people voted stay. It is obvious a significant amount of hype (inaccuracies) was spoken about the benefits of leaving the EU. No mention was made of the divorce bill, reduction in economy,
loss of skilled labour e.g. doctors and nurses etc only the so called brexit bonus to be spent on the NHS.
All that currently looks to have been a case of jam tomorrow and pain now.

Many voted leave because of the free movement of EU citizens potentially causing us loss of jobs and becoming a burden on our social services structure.

Would they still vote the same if the government approached the EU for a waiver on this aspect of the EU rules so we can be selective and cap EU migration to an agreed level. If that addresses many of the leavers fears why not at least ask the EU and if they say yes we have a referendum and end up staying in as members.

The Irish border question, economic hardship etc then disappears as does the parliamentary gridlock.
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11-01-2019, 11:50 AM
85

Re: Brexit - Can you ever please both sides?

Originally Posted by Muckypup ->
It seems from the analyses that the proportion of leave voters was much higher in the 50 plus age range. Younger people voted stay. It is obvious a significant amount of hype (inaccuracies) was spoken about the benefits of leaving the EU. No mention was made of the divorce bill, reduction in economy,
loss of skilled labour e.g. doctors and nurses etc only the so called brexit bonus to be spent on the NHS.
All that currently looks to have been a case of jam tomorrow and pain now.

Many voted leave because of the free movement of EU citizens potentially causing us loss of jobs and becoming a burden on our social services structure.

Would they still vote the same if the government approached the EU for a waiver on this aspect of the EU rules so we can be selective and cap EU migration to an agreed level. If that addresses many of the leavers fears why not at least ask the EU and if they say yes we have a referendum and end up staying in as members.

The Irish border question, economic hardship etc then disappears as does the parliamentary gridlock.
I may be wrong, but I'd hazard a guess that you'd prefer it if we remained in the EU.

Are you into flagellation, necrophilia and bestiality?
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11-01-2019, 12:48 PM
86

Re: Brexit - Can you ever please both sides?

Hi

There is insufficient time to hold another Referendum before leaving date.

If we hold one after we leave and the result is pro EU has anyone considered that the result would not be Remain.

We would be a new entrant, so no automatic rebate and having to join the Euro.

How many people would vote for that?
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11-01-2019, 01:27 PM
87

Re: Brexit - Can you ever please both sides?

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->
Hi

There is insufficient time to hold another Referendum before leaving date.

If we hold one after we leave and the result is pro EU has anyone considered that the result would not be Remain.

We would be a new entrant, so no automatic rebate and having to join the Euro.

How many people would vote for that?
Absolutely agree ^^^ great point

We would be contributing upwards of 80 billion a year most likely.
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11-01-2019, 02:20 PM
88

Re: Brexit - Can you ever please both sides?

Nope did not vote as did not believe arguments from either side.
It is only now we are beginning to see the economic damage that leaving will do especially to our manufacturing industries and there is insufficient evidence to show we will be better off out of the EU. It is a long term bet with much more uncertainty in it. We know what it costs to be in it.

Also such jibes totally show what kind of non thinking little englander individual you must be. Always remember insults and violence are the last refuge of the incompetent and uneducated
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11-01-2019, 02:54 PM
89

Re: Brexit - Can you ever please both sides?

Originally Posted by Muckypup ->
It is a long term bet with much more uncertainty in it. We know what it costs to be in it.

We most certainly do and it is that "cost" that people are no longer prepared to put up with. To the extent that anything, is better than staying with the status quo.

The "cost" is our long hard fought freedoms like the core principles of "Habeus Corpus" (Innocent Until Proved Guilty) which the totalitarian EU would like to replace with Corpus Juris (Guilty Until Proved Innocent).

The "cost" is giving up our sovereignty and nationality and allowing greedy globalism to effectively "neuter" us all such that we all become a nation of "nothing people". The intention being to massively dilute all countries so that native people become minorities in their own country.

The "cost" is to all the UK to be increasingly assimilated into what is fast becoming a totalitarian police state. The Federal States of Europe.

The "cost" is to continue to suffer the bureaucracy of 1000s upon 1000s of little rules and regulations as the EU tries to make one size fit all.

The "cost" is to realise that whilst the UK currently enjoys a number of concessions like not adopting the Euro, those things are just temporary and when the time is right the UK would be forced to fall in line. The clauses in the Lisbon Treaty underpin the fact that members MUST adopt the single currency.

The "cost" is that we have to give up our military power, infrastructure, personnel and resources to the EU for their use. This means if the greedy EU choose to go to war somewhere that is of no concern to us, the UK will be dragged into it. It also means the UK's nuclear weapons will come under the control of the EU, a largely communist/soviet organisation (imo).

and so on


Anything is better than continuing down the course the UK is currently following. A course that fraudulent politicians put us on via stealth and skulduggery. A course the UK people were put on without being given any choice in a referendum.

We WILL take the pain in the short term because it will deliver benefits in spades later on. You can not put a price on freedom.
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11-01-2019, 03:27 PM
90

Re: Brexit - Can you ever please both sides?

Originally Posted by Muckypup ->
Nope did not vote as did not believe arguments from either side.
It is only now we are beginning to see the economic damage that leaving will do especially to our manufacturing industries and there is insufficient evidence to show we will be better off out of the EU. It is a long term bet with much more uncertainty in it. We know what it costs to be in it.

Also such jibes totally show what kind of non thinking little englander individual you must be. Always remember insults and violence are the last refuge of the incompetent and uneducated
From your accusation of us being 'non-thinking little englanders' you sound to be 'incompetent and uneducated' yourself.

That backfired on you, didn't it?

Still, if you are content to hand over your country to a foreign power, so be it.
 
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