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23-07-2020, 06:55 PM
91

Re: The Frugal 4 Get Shafted

Originally Posted by Bread ->
When I spoke to my Dutch friends they said it was nothing to do with money or trade, it was that with the UK in the EU the Netherlands always felt safe in case Germany occupied them again.

Historically the UK has always come to the rescue of Europe and with us leaving the block they feel vulnerable.

Its all a bit too late though now

Especially since yesterday ....
Your friends forget there are other organisations where the UK is tied to other european nations. Nato for one.
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23-07-2020, 07:33 PM
92

Re: The Frugal 4 Get Shafted

Since when did NATO become a nation?

The USA is a member of that one too ... or do you think it will become redundant once the EU gets its own army and defence policy?
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23-07-2020, 07:48 PM
93

Re: The Frugal 4 Get Shafted

Originally Posted by Morticia ->
Since when did NATO become a nation?

The USA is a member of that one too ... or do you think it will become redundant once the EU gets its own army and defence policy?
Put on your reading glasses. I stated there are other organisations wherein the UK is tied to other nations.
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23-07-2020, 08:07 PM
94

Re: The Frugal 4 Get Shafted

But NATO has absolutely nothing to do with Brexit or the UK's decision to leave the EU.

Totally different things ... unless you wistfully envisage one day the EU will have it's own army and can stand alone regarding defence.


Originally Posted by Solasch ->
I keep calling brexit a stupid thing to do, but I don't regret you left. On the contrary, with people like you.
And on that note ... I'll leave you to your discussion.
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23-07-2020, 08:50 PM
95

Re: The Frugal 4 Get Shafted

Originally Posted by Morticia ->
But NATO has absolutely nothing to do with Brexit or the UK's decision to leave the EU.

Totally different things ... unless you wistfully envisage one day the EU will have it's own army and can stand alone regarding defence.
Absolutely correct.

NATO is a defence alliance which includes the world's policeman: the USA.

The EU is a political alliance with full financial control of some of its poorer members.

I am sure that the much vaunted European Army will never actually become a defence organisation, certainly not on an international scale, bearing in mind how much most of the EU countries presently pay toward their own defence.

If anything, I have a feeling that the European Army (if it ever happens) will be a means of enforcing EU diktats and ensuring, once it comes into being, that none of the remaining EU member states can ever break away from the rule from Brussels - or the Franco-German alliance if we are talking realities. The next logical step is obvious.

Should the (imaginary) European Army ever pretend to have any international presence - that is, outside of the EU, I imagine that the countries involved will be invited by NATO to decide whether to ally themselves with the European Army or with NATO.

I think that if we compare NATO (+ the UK but without the mainland European nations) with the European Army we would see an enormous disparity, if not in numbers of feet on the ground, but with actual military power. America alone easily exceeds the whole of Europe in military strength and certainly when it comes to the number of nuclear warheads.

In the long term, I can see the idea of a European Army fizzling out after we have left, not necessarily due to the loss of our forces, but because the EU itself will begin to fall apart anyway.
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23-07-2020, 08:52 PM
96

Re: The Frugal 4 Get Shafted

Originally Posted by Morticia ->
But NATO has absolutely nothing to do with Brexit or the UK's decision to leave the EU.
Who said they do? I didn't!
 
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