Re: Take a Good Hard Look in the Mirror Remoaners!

No JBR.I believe there are other reasons why many people believe we should remain part of the European Union.
For myself I firmly believe that because we are undeniably Europeans (our blood and ancestry is so intertwined) and because we are in such close proximity to the rest of Europe,it is essential to our future wellbeing that we remain. There will always be bickering between countries within the EU, but the important thing is that together we are all in a much stronger position than we would be separated. The world is full of threats to our security and well-being -you only have to look at China and other hugely populated countries which are developing at a rapid rate. Who is to say how these countries will behave in the future. We may well need to defend ourselves and together we are far stronger than alone. There is strength in numbers if war is a threat.
I don't wish to feel like this but I am not going to turn a blind eye to the possibility and hope it will never happen. Economics aside (although I think our economic fortunes are better in the EU) this is why I believe we should stay together
I think we have put ourselves in a very vulnerable position all ways by removing ourselves. As I said in another post, time will tell, and I probably won't be around long enough. However, I do worry for my children and grandchildren who will inherit the results of our actions.
This might sound rubbish to you (and possibly others) but it how I feel about leaving the EU.

Re: Take a Good Hard Look in the Mirror Remoaners!

I ask you again; what manner of leaving would you have been happy with?

Re: Take a Good Hard Look in the Mirror Remoaners!

I must disagree.

Being a country and surviving has not in modern times been about your size and the power you wield because of size.
There are countless examples as I'm sure you must understand, and while the larger might sometimes try (and sometimes manage) to bully those smaller than they that usually does not end well, even if it sometimes takes time.
We remain members of a global body committed to world peace, as well as to (for just one example) Five Eyes.
Intelligence is worth immeasurably more than manpower.

Suggesting that economic good fortune is more likely as a member of the EU is not what almost every statistic would suggest, since the EU's share of global wealth has been diminishing and is projected to decline more over time.
We've seen at first hand the EU's tardiness with decision-making too.

Even before the final day of being restricted by EU protectionism the UK is forging ahead and opening new avenues of trade with the parts of the world which are projected to grow far faster than Europe.
So far from worrying what our children will inherit (and that worry has always been a trait in some for varying reasons throughout time) it is the best opportunity for optimism that this country has had in many decades.

I too freely accept that time will indeed tell, but I personally see far more to be optimistic about than I do to be negative.

Re: Take a Good Hard Look in the Mirror Remoaners!

I understand your feelings and certainly your right to hold your opinions, but taking the matter of security alone, for example, I'm afraid you may be labouring under a misapprehension.

If it came to a matter of defending ourselves against an aggressor, I would certainly never wish to rely on the support of the EU.

For one thing, if you examine the EU countries' defence capabilities, they fall far short of our own largely because they fail to spend the same amount that we do (and that we have agreed to as part of NATO, yet most of them don't).

Talking of NATO, it is doubtful whether any of the EU countries (ourselves excluded) would stand up against an attack from another country like Russia, for example. They, in fact, would quickly come pleading with us and, to a much greater extent, America. What has happened to their much vaunted European Army?

Looking at France, especially, you are surely not assuming that they - our historical enemy - would make any attempt to help us in defence. For one thing, they have a tendency to wave their white flags at the first sign of trouble, and for another they have already threatened us with militarily defending their fishermen against our legal control of our own waters.

The Frogs as allies?
Look back in history!

Re: Take a Good Hard Look in the Mirror Remoaners!

This seems to be a defining characteristic of our age: For many, what they would like to be the truth, conveniently becomes the truth. And when Brexit doesn't deliver on their expectations, it will no doubt be the fault of the "remoaners".

Re: Take a Good Hard Look in the Mirror Remoaners!

If your theory comes to pass I have no doubt whatsoever that the said "remoaners" will be so vocal in their glee that they will ensure that absolutely everybody knows it too.

Don't raise your hopes though.
So far - despite trying for over four years in a huge variety of ways - very little of what these "remoaners" have threatened has come to pass and indeed most has been proven to be blatant lies.

Re: Take a Good Hard Look in the Mirror Remoaners!

There are many, in the UK, who fear any sort of risk taking.

"We're alright, as we are", they complain, "Why take risks?"

On the other hand, There are (luckily) many more who will take a risk, if they truly believe that we can prosper by it, if we do the work, plan properly!

The high street shops are a fair example, of both types, some did't move into the on line booking & fast delivery world, others did.

Which ones are going to the wall?

Re: Take a Good Hard Look in the Mirror Remoaners!

I've only read briefly some of the trade agreement with the EU but if it is good as the government claim, I see no benefit of EU membership at all anymore.

Re: Take a Good Hard Look in the Mirror Remoaners!

Well they're not going to admit they got a rubbish deal, are they?

Re: Take a Good Hard Look in the Mirror Remoaners!

Your not alone Aerolor, although it may seem like it in here.