10-01-2021, 01:47 PM
22
Re: Is Brexit over ??
Originally Posted by OldGreyFox
->
To keep us attached for so long by continual extensions till the
average bloke says OFI who cares !!
Donkeyman! 👎👎
10-01-2021, 03:23 PM
23
Re: Is Brexit over ??
Originally Posted by Bread
->
Why bother when the tories are implementing the Brexit Party's manifesto anyway 
- handing them access to our fishing areas, in fact even more so now as they are allowed within our SIX-mile limit (and we are not allowed that close to their shorelines);
- subject to their trade paperwork mountain, despite having a 'free trade' arrangement;
- allowing, in fact assisting in, the transfer of illegal immigrants from the Channel into our country;
- obliged to continue to pay the EU for some reason (I believe the bill altogether is £20billion);
- under the impression that tariff-free trade with the EU benefits us, whereas the EU exports far more to us that we do to them;
- excluded from projects like Galileo, into which we have already paid handsomely;
- etc, etc.
10-01-2021, 04:08 PM
24
Re: Is Brexit over ??
Originally Posted by Donkeyman
->
But that is part of the EUs fiendish plan OGF !To keep us attached for so long by continual extensions till the
average bloke says OFI who cares !!
Donkeyman! 👎👎
10-01-2021, 04:46 PM
26
Re: Is Brexit over ??
Originally Posted by JBR
->
Not exactly. We are still:- handing them access to our fishing areas, in fact even more so now as they are allowed within our SIX-mile limit (and we are not allowed that close to their shorelines);
AFAIK others are allowed in the 6-to-12 mile zone so long as they have a license but not inside the 6.
"Particularly important to them was that the deal would secure an exclusive zone for UK boats within 12 miles of shore, but foreign vessels with a track record will continue to have access to the 6 to 12 mile area under a grandfather clause."
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/fisheries-trade-deal/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN29415G
Originally Posted by JBR
->
Not exactly. We are still:- subject to their trade paperwork mountain, despite having a 'free trade' arrangement;
Second such "paperwork" was always necessary, but now what is needed is different AND it's not as if everybody didn't know we were leaving, is it?
So why aren't the moaners more prepared?
IMHO they mostly have themselves to blame for failing to do their research in such a vital area of their business.
No matter in what and to whom you trade, you fulfil their requirements if you want to do business with them.
Always.
If the paperwork for exporting to the EU is too onerous then sell elsewhere, because it seems that we can trade with the rest of the world just fine.
Originally Posted by JBR
->
Not exactly. We are still:- allowing, in fact assisting in, the transfer of illegal immigrants from the Channel into our country;
Priti seems to have the right ideas, now let's see if she is allowed to implement them.
Stopping entry using iffy visa's has been a good start.
Originally Posted by JBR
->
Not exactly. We are still:- obliged to continue to pay the EU for some reason (I believe the bill altogether is £20billion);
If Boris had argued this further I think it's pretty certain we would not yet have left.
Originally Posted by JBR
->
Not exactly. We are still:- under the impression that tariff-free trade with the EU benefits us, whereas the EU exports far more to us that we do to them;
Any problems (such as the ones you hint at) and the imbalance is an excellent bargaining tool, since we know with certainty now that the EU are worried about losing trade.
We in the UK can now buy from where we want to AND potentially at better prices than the EU's protectionist rates too: I've given cheaper Israeli & South African oranges vs Spanish before as an example.
There's a huge number of other potentially beneficial opportunities just waiting to be seized.
Originally Posted by JBR
->
Not exactly. We are still:- excluded from projects like Galileo, into which we have already paid handsomely;
IMHO I would rather choose what we pay for and decide what is best for us than have others dictate.
Not only that, but seeing how the EU does with organising things it's probably better being beyond the likes of Galileo which I'm pretty sure they will bu@@er up somehow.
I can understand you not being happy, really I can.
But things aren't as bad as you seem to think they are - and they will not get to that stage either unless both our politicians AND the public allow things to descend towards that state of affairs.
Being quite honest, I'm heartened by what I've seen so far - as with the expungeing of EU wording from our laws.
Is it perfect?
No.
But did anybody seriously ever think that it would be?
From here on in, what happens in this country really is up to us.
For the first time in decades.
Let's start by being grateful for that.
10-01-2021, 05:10 PM
28
Re: Is Brexit over ??
Originally Posted by Zaphod
->
Evidence for that please because IMHO that is incorrect?AFAIK others are allowed in the 6-to-12 mile zone so long as they have a license but not inside the 6.
"Particularly important to them was that the deal would secure an exclusive zone for UK boats within 12 miles of shore, but foreign vessels with a track record will continue to have access to the 6 to 12 mile area under a grandfather clause."
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/fisheries-trade-deal/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN29415G
First this isn't exactly "paperwork" insomuch as it is pretty much all done online.
Second such "paperwork" was always necessary, but now what is needed is different AND it's not as if everybody didn't know we were leaving, is it?
So why aren't the moaners more prepared?
IMHO they mostly have themselves to blame for failing to do their research in such a vital area of their business.
No matter in what and to whom you trade, you fulfil their requirements if you want to do business with them.
Always.
If the paperwork for exporting to the EU is too onerous then sell elsewhere, because it seems that we can trade with the rest of the world just fine.
Nothing has changed very much in centuries, but I agree that more needs to be done here ......... just like it always has been, BUT there needs to be sufficient public appetite to do so otherwise the snowflakes prevent action.
Priti seems to have the right ideas, now let's see if she is allowed to implement them.
Stopping entry using iffy visa's has been a good start.
Generally agreed but IMHO the blame for any imbalance with this lays firmly with Treason May.
If Boris had argued this further I think it's pretty certain we would not yet have left.
It does undoubtedly benefit us, despite the imbalance.
Any problems (such as the ones you hint at) and the imbalance is an excellent bargaining tool, since we know with certainty now that the EU are worried about losing trade.
We in the UK can now buy from where we want to AND potentially at better prices than the EU's protectionist rates too: I've given cheaper Israeli & South African oranges vs Spanish before as an example.
There's a huge number of other potentially beneficial opportunities just waiting to be seized.
I would rather be out than continue paying AND having to perpetually fight for decent access.
IMHO I would rather choose what we pay for and decide what is best for us than have others dictate.
Not only that, but seeing how the EU does with organising things it's probably better being beyond the likes of Galileo which I'm pretty sure they will bu@@er up somehow.
I can understand you not being happy, really I can.
But things aren't as bad as you seem to think they are - and they will not get to that stage either unless both our politicians AND the public allow things to descend towards that state of affairs.
Being quite honest, I'm heartened by what I've seen so far - as with the expungeing of EU wording from our laws.
Is it perfect?
No.
But did anybody seriously ever think that it would be?
From here on in, what happens in this country really is up to us.
For the first time in decades.
Let's start by being grateful for that.
If we had walked away in the face of the EU's prevaricating and threatening, we would have sent a clear message that we are not going to be dictated to. I think that should have been made clear right at the outset of any discussions.
Having left completely with absolutely no ties or restrictions, we could later have proposed a trade agreement with the EU. If they had agreed, I think we'd have been in a stronger position than we are now; if they had refused, we'd have continued to trade with the world under WTO rules. Things might have been less easy initially but would, in my opinion, have been worth it. Bearing in mind that the EU countries export more to us than we do to them, I have a feeling that their businesses would have forced them to think again about a free trade deal.
The main thing is that we should have given away none of our rights. Treason May's WA could have been torn up, along with its problems which are presently holding us back and we could have saved £billions of her promised payments.
10-01-2021, 05:10 PM
29
Re: Is Brexit over ??
There is a saying (with various variations) -The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
And I think that sort of thing applies to Brexit
Remainers will complain about Brexit whatever the situation, since they did not want to leave the EU at all
And some people who voted Leave will not be happy as they think it did not go far enough in Britain's favour
But we must accept that any sort of deal or negotiation involves some sort of compromise, and considering the years of delay, treachery, subversion and obstruction we've had to endure to get this far, perhaps this is the best we can expect for now
It's early days, let's see how we go on, and be willing or prepared to change things if we need to, even changing to WTO terms
However, more importantly we must be on our guard for any kind of backsliding, weakening, or creeping return to the EU by this or any future government, and the Remainers in general
10-01-2021, 05:22 PM
30
Re: Is Brexit over ??
Originally Posted by zuludog
->
There is a saying (with various variations) -The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
And I think that sort of thing applies to Brexit
Remainers will complain about Brexit whatever the situation, since they did not want to leave the EU at all
And some people who voted Leave will not be happy as they think it did not go far enough in Britain's favour
But we must accept that any sort of deal or negotiation involves some sort of compromise, and considering the years of delay, treachery, subversion and obstruction we've had to endure to get this far, perhaps this is the best we can expect for now
It's early days, let's see how we go on, and be willing or prepared to change things if we need to, even changing to WTO terms
However, more importantly we must be on our guard for any kind of backsliding, weakening, or creeping return to the EU by this or any future government, and the Remainers in general
I completely agree that we should not be afraid of changing our minds, especially if things look not to be working in our favour.
|
|
