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Donkeyman
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Donkeyman is offline
Melton,United Kingdom
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22-06-2020, 09:40 AM
21

Re: Aims of BLM

Originally Posted by keezoy ->
Happy to answer your question DM even if it is rhetorical. Yes some of them were my ancestors. My other ancestors were from what is now the USA. And unless your ancestors were from somewhere other than Britain, they were your ancestors too. So - respectfully of course .. what exactly is your point? Why does it take so long to affect peaceful social and political change anywhere?..Because like in your country, we have people here who are progressive and want to see change, and we have people who are conservative, only care about themselves and want things to stay the same. Nothing is a simple matter when it comes to changing a constitution DM. I was talking about the BLack Lives Matter movement in Australia. My only point in that particular post was that
We are taking the Black Lives Matter here seriously. Most of the demonstrations are peaceful and relevant. And, they are supported by a large percentage of the population - notwith standing risks caused by contravention of the social distancing laws *. There is little or no violence, looting or destruction of property. Certainly not by black people leastways. At most of the demonstrations the people have been outnumbered by police.

* AFAIK there was only one case of Covid that could be indisputably attributed to the demos. THat was in Melbourne. But Victoria is an aberration at the moment with Covid. They have 25 new cases while the rest of the states have almost none.

I was only joshing KZ, as you obviously suspected?
But regarding the the time it takes to change laws etc, surely it is
only the case if the majority of the population are what you describe
as conservative surely? Which then implies certain preconceptions
about the opinions of the majority of ozzies??
I am asking these questions out of a genuine interest in antipodean
affairs as l have a couple of mates out in oz and l have had bad
feedback from them regarding aborigine affairs and l wondered if
this attitude was prevalent or not??
Thanks for answering in a civilized manner? I find social affairs to
be very interesting especially when they involve other cultures etc?

Donkeyman! 👍😁😁👍
keezoy
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22-06-2020, 10:12 AM
22

Re: Aims of BLM

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
I was only joshing KZ, as you obviously suspected?
But regarding the the time it takes to change laws etc, surely it is
only the case if the majority of the population are what you describe
as conservative surely? Which then implies certain preconceptions
about the opinions of the majority of ozzies??
I am asking these questions out of a genuine interest in antipodean
affairs as l have a couple of mates out in oz and l have had bad
feedback from them regarding aborigine affairs and l wondered if
this attitude was prevalent or not??
Thanks for answering in a civilized manner? I find social affairs to
be very interesting especially when they involve other cultures etc?

Donkeyman! 👍😁😁👍
You are totally welcome DM. Happy again to elaborate.

In short, there are still some atrocious incidents occurring here with our first nations people. Mostly deaths in custody in outback towns. Also the incarceration rate among indigenous people is way out of proportion with whites considering the small percentage of the total population they represent. There is a huge difference in how FNPs live in the large cities and how they live in "outback" places. So yes there are still many problems. ON the plus side there have been huge advances in FNPs rights and conditions in all areas ib the last few decades. The story is a very long one with pluses and minuses all the way. Much the same as Canada and the USA..I mean with their indigenous peoples., not African Americans. As the song says.."We are one..we are many. and from all the lands on Earth we come"..My ancestors were from Northamptonshire, Scotland and Ireland and later from San Francisco, California. My next door neighbour is from India and over the road from Africa. my son's headmaster at primary school was a proud Darkinjung man from the northern Sydney nation. We try not to look at skin coulour. Just the future, for all of us.
Donkeyman
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22-06-2020, 11:31 AM
23

Re: Aims of BLM

Originally Posted by keezoy ->
You are totally welcome DM. Happy again to elaborate.

In short, there are still some atrocious incidents occurring here with our first nations people. Mostly deaths in custody in outback towns. Also the incarceration rate among indigenous people is way out of proportion with whites considering the small percentage of the total population they represent. There is a huge difference in how FNPs live in the large cities and how they live in "outback" places. So yes there are still many problems. ON the plus side there have been huge advances in FNPs rights and conditions in all areas ib the last few decades. The story is a very long one with pluses and minuses all the way. Much the same as Canada and the USA..I mean with their indigenous peoples., not African Americans. As the song says.."We are one..we are many. and from all the lands on Earth we come"..My ancestors were from Northamptonshire, Scotland and Ireland and later from San Francisco, California. My next door neighbour is from India and over the road from Africa. my son's headmaster at primary school was a proud Darkinjung man from the northern Sydney nation. We try not to look at skin coulour. Just the future, for all of us.
From my feedback with ozzy visitors over here KZ! most of them
portray the aborigine people as drunken layabouts etc?
This may well be so! But l believe it was common not only in ozzy
but in North America as well to make cheap plonk available as a means of breaking up the natural native social systems which did not
rely on working for a boss in order to exist as in the so called
civilised nations??
This could also be a factor in the DIC's you mention if the cops
just toss the drunks into a cell for the night and then leave them
unattended to choke to death?
I am sure someone is allready looking into these things but l was
surprised at the seeming high % of ozzies who held anti native
sentiments even from people who tolerate other ethnicities in
their daily lives,yourself being a good example??
(of being tolerant l mean!)

Donkeyman! 👍😁👍
keezoy
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22-06-2020, 11:13 PM
24

Re: Aims of BLM

DM I think you will find that people who hold racist and intolerant views in Australia are (generally but not exclusively) the same demographic cohort that hold them everywhere - older people. I've lived in the US and the racism there is multilayered. There's the African Americans at all strata of society. Then there's the Native Americans who are also successful in many areas. People who simply categorise FN people as "layabout drunks" are stereotyping them grossly. LIke there are no white layabout drunks??...I could go on. I think you need to see for yourself. The list of indigenous Australians that have me and the whole nation very proud is endless. They are the oldest continuous culture on Earth. Their history and traditions make Ancient Greece and Egypt seem like new housing estates. 40- 60 thousand years. No offence to you if they are your friends but these people you are talking sound very ignorant themselves to me. It's a bit like labelling the whole of England as violent morons because of a cohort of violent soccer mugs or a small bunch of belligerent, drunken pub yobs. If you want to see what life is really like come and visit. We have a spare room
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Muddy
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23-06-2020, 12:05 AM
25

Re: Aims of BLM

Nevertheless Keezoy the Aboriginal people are still the most disadvantaged in Australia
There are proportionally more indigenous adult males in prison or have been in prison than white Australians.
The suicide rate among indigenous people is appalling.
Of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders aged 15 to 35 years, nearly one in three deaths is a suicide.
One in four of Australia’s homeless are Indigenous Australians.
Life expectancy amongst the indigenous people is on average 20 years less than white Australians .
These are very sad statistics .
keezoy
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23-06-2020, 12:27 AM
26

Re: Aims of BLM

Originally Posted by Muddy ->
Nevertheless Keezoy the Aboriginal people are still the most disadvantaged in Australia
There are proportionally more indigenous adult males in prison or have been in prison than white Australians.
The suicide rate among indigenous people is appalling.
Of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders aged 15 to 35 years, nearly one in three deaths is a suicide.
One in four of Australia’s homeless are Indigenous Australians.
Life expectancy amongst the indigenous people is on average 20 years less than white Australians .
These are very sad statistics .
I didn't argue against that point. I said exactly that at the beginning of my post. And there is also lot of movement to change that at all levels by the whole country. White and black. All I ask is for a balanced view. White and black Australians are working very hard..together.. every day to change those statistics. As they are in Canada and the US. ( I am not talking about African Americans - that's not a social problem, it's a war, nothing less) New Zealand of course is way ahead but that's typical of them. They are a good role model. It's the little, well organised, cohesive and democratic countries that are doing the best. Viz..NZ, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Singapore etc. And the biggest..China?..There are lots of different perspectives on what "doing well" means. We cant talk about them without feeling very angry. You want to talk about racism!?...They (the regime) are always bleating about racism and playing that card every five minutes when they don't get their own way. They are the most brutal and cruel racists on Earth. Off topic yes..so sue me!
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23-06-2020, 01:45 AM
27

Re: Aims of BLM

Sorry I missed the post where you mentioned prison .
I am not so sure of New Zealand it doesn’t have many people yet still 51 % of the prison population is made up of Maoris and Pacific Islanders yet they are only15 % of the total population. So maybe it’s not racism maybe they commit more crimes ?
Denmark iwelcomed people in until Theo Van Gogh was murdered in the street by a Moroccan Muslim fanatic . Since then attitudes have hardened towards Muslims and laws re head coverings have been promoted . Some people call this racism .
We in the uk are well aware of the brutality of China and our PM has offered to take In three million Hong Kong residents if necessary no doubt many would prefer to go to Australia .
keezoy
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23-06-2020, 02:08 AM
28

Re: Aims of BLM

Originally Posted by Muddy ->
Sorry I missed the post where you mentioned prison .
I am not so sure of New Zealand it doesn’t have many people yet still 51 % of the prison population is made up of Maoris and Pacific Islanders yet they are only15 % of the total population. So maybe it’s not racism maybe they commit more crimes ?
Denmark iwelcomed people in until Theo Van Gogh was murdered in the street by a Moroccan Muslim fanatic . Since then attitudes have hardened towards Muslims and laws re head coverings have been promoted . Some people call this racism .
We in the uk are well aware of the brutality of China and our PM has offered to take In three million Hong Kong residents if necessary no doubt many would prefer to go to Australia .
Yes and they would be welcome as long as they intend to abide by our laws like the rest of us have to..and are not stooges and spies for the Chinese regime. Muslims? There is not the blanket hate here that I have seen elsewhere. In either direction. I'm not sure whether you spent much time in Sydney or Melbourne or any other of the big cities here - I know you were in Brisbane..I think? But mostly Muslims live here in peace and basically get on with their lives. They are free to worship and live as they wish. THere are also large numbers of Muslims who have migrated to regional and country areas. That experiment seems to have worked very well. Haven't heard any words of hate from there. But yes there are still big problems in regional areas with the indigenous population where they do not have first nation rights. In other areas, especially in the North with the Torres Strait Islander nations. Many are dry. No alcohol at all. They have their own tourist and hospitality industries. Their own local councils. Strict traditional laws that act in harmony with state law. Also crossover units with the State and territorial police. There is a lot to be proud of that many people from overseas know nothing about.

There have been a couple of fatal Islamic terrorist incidents which were admittedly dreadful. I'm sure they got press O/S like all the bad things do. Many more have been foiled by the AFP, ASD, ASIO and co-operation between various state police forces. The only racial "riot" I can remember was Cronulla years ago. And that was just a bunch of drunken red neck right wing surf gang thugs (for the UK read..drunken football yobs)..that started that. Anyway as far as First nations people go, I will always be biased. I was saved from drowning in a river by a young Aboriginal boy when I was a kid. I will always be on their side. Even if they are just laying in the street drunk.I have had to work hard to not react on this forum when I read comments like "All Muslims are scum"..and "They should all be exterminated"..(Trawl back through the threads and you will see them) Yes some of them are scum. Like some members of every race and religion are scum. If we can't have faith that most people ..black, white, conservative, socialist..Muslim, Jew, Christian ..all of us..just want a peaceful life and work towards it, we will never change. Nothing will ever get better. And the hate will win: and destroy us all. We may as well just all just give up and die now. Because if we go on like that..no matter how arrogantly and ignorantly confident we are, nobody will win.
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Baz46
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Somewhere rural 'out in the sticks', UK
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23-06-2020, 07:29 AM
29

Re: Aims of BLM

@ keezoy post # 28

Your comments and views keezoy are probably those of many of us in the UK, I do know they reflect my own views. These are formed by our own experiences and what we see happening around us, especially when it comes to all the terrorist incidents here in the UK. There have been very many of these with considerable loss of life and still this continues. The way some people here try to live by their own standards, not those we have, is spoiling this country for the majority. Strong methods to stop it are desperately needed and with a strict attitude towards this, showing we will not tolerate it and with suitable punishment, show other potential terrorists that is the case here in the UK. Those who don't like this should either cease their activities or find somewhere else to live. Those who live within our laws and standards of acceptable behaviour are usually welcomed by most, but definitely not those who wish to ignore our ways of life and instead seek to impose their own.
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23-06-2020, 07:52 AM
30

Re: Aims of BLM

I would just like to say that many immigrants to the UK are not legal, so if they arrive here with no means of support they need proof that they are tormented refugees. The majority are economic migrants & I don't see why we should have to provide for them. If we don't, they are more likely to turn to crime & I would never welcome criminals to my home country.

As for Muslims, if they follow Sharia law they are already criminals in the UK because they have sex with underage girls, stone women to death if they are unfaithful to their husbands & force women to wear clothes that cover their whole body. Those things are against British law, even if they are just occasional crimes, so I believe that any religion that allows these activities is also aiding crimes & should therefore have no right to practice in this country.
Their religion makes it known that all people, who aren't Islam followers, should be & their intention is to make us all Muslims........ that is how they have brainwashed young terrorist!

I am sorry, but I feel that anyone who follows this religion's rules should be forced to abandon their religion or live in a country that supports it's Sharia law.... otherwise Britain could become the next Pakistan.
 
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