26-03-2019, 09:15 AM
1
Proportional Representation. The Way Forward.
I must confess, I had often heard of Proportional Representation but didn’t have a clue about it until Solasch kindly explained how it works in his post.I have to admit, since reading up more on it, as well as looking at the video below, I am more in favour of it than ever. Why? Because after seeing how our First Past the Post system works, I can see clearly now just how our first past the post voting is grossly unfair.
Why should it be the case that if I voted for a Tory in the GE and he won, my vote and everyone else who voted for that candidate, also counts as votes for the main Tory Party as well.
I didn’t vote for the Tory party, I voted for the Tory candidate to represent this ward.
Another example, The SNP, during their GE, used a new and much fairer system of voting called AMS (Additional Member System) which is very similar to proportional representation.
The Scots definitely did not want to use the English system of first past the post because it gave a disadvantage to some parties and allowed one party an unfair advantage by giving them an overall majority even if that party only gained half of the votes.
The SNP gained 1.5million votes, which put 56 SNP members into office using the AMS system.
In our first past the post voting system in our GE, Nigel Farage’s UKIP Party received a huge
3.5million votes, and ended up with just 1 single MP.
Regardless of how we all feel about UKIP today, how can that ever be fair.?
It's certainly opened my eyes.
I must admit, it took a little while for me to understand how PR works, especially the Quota bit of it where leftover votes once the winning candidate reaches the figure needed to be first, but now I do, I am personally all for it. It gives everyone a really opportune and much fairer chance to get their candidate into government to represent their constituents.
With the disgraceful goings on in our Parliament over the last few years, and as of the 19th February 2019, Proportional Representation is back on the table for debate, after collecting over 100,000 names in a petition (the two main parties must blanche at such a thought of PR). For decades they have ruled the roost. PR would change politics in the UK forever, and for better as I now see it.
Do take a look at the video. It had me going swivel-eyed to start with, but as the video goes on, it becomes perfectly clear how the system works, (as I say, it took me a minute or two to suss out how the votes over the quota needed worked) but I now understand that perfectly too.
My God, if we got PR through here, it would set the cat amongst the pigeons. Politics would never be the same old crap that it is now.
After you have viewed the video, please could you make your view known, I would be really interested to know how others feel about PR.
Almost every democratic country in the world uses PR for voting. It is only the UK, the Commonwealth countries, and India I believe, that still use the first past the post system.
26-03-2019, 09:30 AM
3
Re: Proportional Representation. The Way Forward.
Originally Posted by shropshiregirl
->
I must confess, I had often heard of Proportional Representation but didn’t have a clue about it until Solasch kindly explained how it works in his post.I have to admit, since reading up more on it, as well as looking at the video below, I am more in favour of it than ever. Why? Because after seeing how our First Past the Post system works, I can see clearly now just how our first past the post voting is grossly unfair.
Why should it be the case that if I voted for a Tory in the GE and he won, my vote and everyone else who voted for that candidate, also counts as votes for the main Tory Party as well.
I didn’t vote for the Tory party, I voted for the Tory candidate to represent this ward.
Another example, The SNP, during their GE, used a new and much fairer system of voting called AMS (Additional Member System) which is very similar to proportional representation.
The Scots definitely did not want to use the English system of first past the post because it gave a disadvantage to some parties and allowed one party an unfair advantage by giving them an overall majority even if that party only gained half of the votes.
The SNP gained 1.5million votes, which put 56 SNP members into office using the AMS system.
In our first past the post voting system in our GE, Nigel Farage’s UKIP Party received a huge
3.5million votes, and ended up with just 1 single MP.
Regardless of how we all feel about UKIP today, how can that ever be fair.?
It's certainly opened my eyes.
I must admit, it took a little while for me to understand how PR works, especially the Quota bit of it where leftover votes once the winning candidate reaches the figure needed to be first, but now I do, I am personally all for it. It gives everyone a really opportune and much fairer chance to get their candidate into government to represent their constituents.
With the disgraceful goings on in our Parliament over the last few years, and as of the 19th February 2019, Proportional Representation is back on the table for debate, after collecting over 100,000 names in a petition (the two main parties must blanche at such a thought of PR). For decades they have ruled the roost. PR would change politics in the UK forever, and for better as I now see it.
Do take a look at the video. It had me going swivel-eyed to start with, but as the video goes on, it becomes perfectly clear how the system works, (as I say, it took me a minute or two to suss out how the votes over the quota needed worked) but I now understand that perfectly too.
My God, if we got PR through here, it would set the cat amongst the pigeons. Politics would never be the same old crap that it is now.
After you have viewed the video, please could you make your view known, I would be really interested to know how others feel about PR.
Almost every democratic country in the world uses PR for voting. It is only the UK, the Commonwealth countries, and India I believe, that still use the first past the post system.
There is another PR system than AMS darlin' one which Cameron was asked to put on the referendum ballot but refused to do so - that was Single Transferrable Vote :
Explained here:
https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/...sferable-vote/
26-03-2019, 09:46 AM
5
Re: Proportional Representation. The Way Forward.
STV - Brilliant system as well UJ. No wonder Cameron would have nothing to do with it. They don't want change, they don't want power taken away from the two-party system that ensures both of the two main parties are always in the majority. It's sickening.
26-03-2019, 10:04 AM
7
Re: Proportional Representation. The Way Forward.
I think it is hard to go past our preferential system as a nearly ideal system because every vote counts and is not exhausted just because a person voted '1' for complete galah.The only thing I would say is don't let the bastards do what some of the states have done and make it an optional preferential system - just number ALL the boxes.
Oh yes and always put the sitting member last because only marginal seats get any attention from the parties, safe seats are ignored by everybody.
Edit:
I just looked at "Single Transferable Vote" it's just a stupid name for a preferential system of voting.
Here is the Greens 'how to vote' card at the NSW State Election last weekend. BTW Anna Watson (Labor) is the sitting member for Shellharbour.
...and here is the result:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/election...19/guide/shel/
It didn't even need go to preferences because Anna Watson got 50% plus one vote before preferences were distributed.
26-03-2019, 10:34 AM
9
Re: Proportional Representation. The Way Forward.
BTW Our Electoral system has several features- It is a Preferential System
- Voting is compulsory (you end up with the government you deserve)
- Elections are always held on a Saturday
- NSW State terms are fixed at 4 years
- Federal terms are 3 years but currently not fixed however it is a brave PM that goes early they usually get punished.
- The next Federal poll is due this year probably the 11th or 18th May
- Upper and lower houses are elected
BTW I am confused by this from Wikipaedia
"New South Wales has compulsory voting, with optional preferential voting in single-member seats for the lower house and single transferable vote with optional preferential above-the-line voting in the proportionally represented upper house. The election was conducted by the New South Wales Electoral Commission (NSWEC). "
I thought preferential voting was the same as single transferable vote but apparently not.
26-03-2019, 10:57 AM
10
Re: Proportional Representation. The Way Forward.
Bruce, sorry to sound dumb about all of this, can you please tell me - in your PR voting system, how many Parliamentary seats were up for grabs in Shellharbour? I appreciate Labor, the sitting party won with 68.5% of the vote, Liberals also got a seat with 31.5%, are you telling us then that candidates 3 and 4 got zero votes between them.As I say, it takes a while for me to absorb how the system works, but you have me puzzled over this one.
How can two candidates get 100% of the vote and the other parties absolutely no votes?
Please could you explain to this dumbo?
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