Re: Proportional Representation. The Way Forward.

Thats a moot point LD. Bruce, do you honestly believe that tactical voting could be used in the PR voting system.
I'm racking my brain to think how, as your system seems such a fair way of doing it.

Re: Proportional Representation. The Way Forward.

No, SG darlin' they are different - the PR system that Cameron chose to put to a referendum was atrocious which is why it got such a negative answer from the public and rightly so. Had he, as he was asked to do, put STV (Single Transferable Vote) system on the ballot paper, I think the answer would have been substantially different.

Re: Proportional Representation. The Way Forward.

The enormous problem with all the pr systems is getting our MPs to vote for it, it would be asking them to put themselves on the line in a way most won't be happy with. Also making it understandable so people if there is a referendum vote for it isn't so easy either.

Re: Proportional Representation. The Way Forward.

Once upon a time there were 'vote whisperers' who used to help minor parties stitch up deals to raise their chances of election in the upper house by directing their flow of preferences.

In those days if you voted 'above the line' on the upper house ballot you put 1 only for the party of your choice. The preferences were then registered by the political parties with the electoral office as to how the preferences would flow once a candidate had a quota.

If you wanted to ensure the preferences flowed the way you wanted you had no choice but to number below the line. There might be 250 squares below the line which had to be numbered accurately.

That has been stopped by allowing you to number above the line and the preferences flow in that order.

You can still number below the line but you only need to number at least 15 candidates (up to any number you like).

Have a look at the upper house voting on the Greens How to Vote card I posted earlier.

BTW the upper hose voting slip was about over a metre wide by just under a metre tall. It is often referred to as a tablecloth.

This is the price of a democratic upper house.

In the lower house the political parties always tactically order their 'how to vote' cards to try to ensure that the flow of preferences is to their advantage. They do deals with other candidates to swap preferences ie "you put us second on your how to vote card and we will put you second on ours". As I intimated before who comes second or third in the count can influence who finally wins.

You don't have to follow the 'How to vote' cards but people do to ensure their preferred candidate wins.

Re: Proportional Representation. The Way Forward.

Thanks for the explanation Bruce, You have the patience of a saint!
My goodness, that tablecloth squares sounds complicated. I'll have to keep reading your post over and over again until I can take it in.

As to tactical voting, I guess from what you say goes on, it happens in every system. I would still much prefer PR, though I very much doubt if I will see it in my lifetime.

Re: Proportional Representation. The Way Forward.

Sounds like what we need here SG, l think we voted this way when
we voted the second election in SA and the ANC got in for the
second time. It was'nt explained very clearly, but nobody seemed
to have any trouble when actually voting, including me.
Perhaps when this present debacle is over we should investigate
further, and insist we have another go at it,the time is right for
change now, we must have change now to get shot of this
sorry excuse of representation we have now
What do we need to do now to make our views known
Who do we need to contact etc
Any thing is better than what we have now

Best Regards. Donkeyman