Re: Personal EU Membership

Parliament is only accountable to us every five years when we elect out those who don't do what they promised, which is pretty much all of them usually. They can't just do what they or we want anyway because they have to work within the legislative framework. Something people seem to have found to be an inconvenience they never knew existed until Brexit! That's why they said that by law the referendum was "advisory". We do not have the power to make decisions that are legally binding. There are good reasons for all this. Such as avoiding mob rule and corruption.

We do not have a direct democracy so we do not get to make the decisions. Only Switzerland has a form of that. But their system is pretty complex and they have a referendum every five minutes with a two tier results system.

What politicians do is lie a lot to the public. You can't go by what Cameron said as an excuse or explanation for anything because it's clear he was disingenuous about many aspects of the process. It's funny that on the one hand leave supporters say he was pants on fire and on the other his words are used as an excuse for justifying the referendum rules as people would like to interpret them.

Anyway this is the sovereignty we so treasure and want. (or don't want! which is it again?!)

NB . Look up the definition of "parliamentary democracy"

Re: Personal EU Membership

It seems your ability to calculate is out of practice. Let me do the calculation for you.
You are not going to pay the 11,2 bn £ a year. The other 27 members are going to miss that amount. But we don't have to pay the yearly rabate of 4,7 bn for you anymore, so we are going to get that back. So actually we miss out on 6,5 bn (11,2 - 4,7).

Divided over the 27 member, that amounts to 240 mln a year. For the netherlands with 18 mln inhabitants that means 13,3£ a year, a little more than 1£ a month, say 4 cents a day.

As you say, we are really going to pay to stay in. As this is what we pay to get rid of you? I don't think many people will object the UK leaving. Agree?

Re: Personal EU Membership

11.2 billion plus the rebate is what is pay. The 11.2 is the net contribution.

Where did you get that from. Diane Abbott

Re: Personal EU Membership

C

Annie, you are wrong. Parliament is not sovereign, the People are.

"Popular sovereignty is the principle that the authority of a state and its government are created and sustained by the consent of its people, through their elected representatives (Rule by the People) who is the source of all political power"

Re: Personal EU Membership

The principle of Parliamentary Sovereignty means neither more nor less than this, namely, that Parliament … has, under the English constitution, the right to make any law whatever; and, further, that no person or body is recognised by the law of England as having a right to override or set aside the legislation of Parliament.*

— Professor AV Dicey,*An Introduction to the Study of the Law of the Constitution

Re: Personal EU Membership

That's a myth SG. The only reason we had a referendum was because Parliament approved it. The only power we have is during elections. But I don't remember any politician being held to account for breaking promises. The whole Brexit argument centred around having the clowns in westminster fully in charge rather than the clowns in Brussels. But it's still a circus IMO and we are just the audience clapping or booing...

Re: Personal EU Membership

I've long since avoided trying to debate a point for any length of time with certain people. There is no point.

Re: Personal EU Membership

You can't deselect any of the EU council though Annie - you can't vote them out or hold them to account. They are an unelected, appointed elite.

We can, at least vote out our government at an election.

Re: Personal EU Membership

And could do so more effectively if elections were more frequent.

Re: Personal EU Membership

True ...

We should just start ignoring everything the EU expects us to do. What can they do about it, all the elite are is a government without a country.