Re: BoJo picks a fight with Russia.

Exactly so. It was part of the Ottoman Empire and the Crimean War which Britain got dragged into was because Russia needed to get into the Mediterranean from being permanently locked in the Black Sea. Invading the Turkish-owned Crimea using the flimsy excuse of wanting to drive the Turks out of the Holy Land was just the excuse they needed. The Turks formed an alliance with France and the UK. Russia had to back down.

Re: BoJo picks a fight with Russia.

The Russians already have form for this …
In April 2016, several Russian Su-24s flew within 30 metres of another American ship, the destroyer Donald Cook in the Baltic Sea. The incidents occurred over two days, with the planes making passes by the Donald Cook while it was in international waters. In November 2018, two armed Russian Su-24s flew low over the Belgian frigate Godetia. At the time of the incident, the Godetia was in use as the command ship of NATO’s northern mine sweeping fleet.

Re: BoJo picks a fight with Russia.

Something strange seems to be happening in the last twenty years or so. Some of our politicians start off with such good intentions but then it seems like they have been 'Got at' by a much bigger power. Boris came out fighting and promises of taking us out of the EU and sorting our borders out, Farage started the ball rolling but made some excuse when he was at the height of his popularity and resigned from UKIP with some cock and bull excuse. Trump gets kicked out of the presidency because he was unconventional and upset lots of people, but then sleepy Joe takes over, who is obviously someone else's puppet.

The only leader who doesn't seem to be controlled is Putin.
With so much propaganda about him in the media we have been brainwashed into thinking he is the enemy and I don't believe he is.
Sure, he has done some bad stuff, allegedly poisoning folk and locking people up who speak against him, but it's small potatoes to what our own government has done in the past.

Re: BoJo picks a fight with Russia.

OGF
Please tell what our own government has done that is worse than the deeds carried out by Putin's mob. I know of no forced labour camps. I know of none of our citizens being poisoned because they do not agree with what their leaders have said or done.

Re: BoJo picks a fight with Russia.

MI5 and the SAS are actively working around the world on a daily basis to influence foreign activities in our favour Ben, just because it's not in the daily mail doesn't mean it's not happening. For all you and I know it could have been our own special forces that poisoned various Russians and put the blame on Putin to sour our relations. You must be quite naive if you think we couldn't do such things....
Look how we turned our backs on our own commonwealth countries after we joined the EU (then the Common market) ask any Aussie what they think about that.

Re: BoJo picks a fight with Russia.

OGF: I wonder if you have really considered Putin's actions fully before deciding that you do not believe Putin to be "the enemy"?
Because if you have I'm sorry but I find that suggestion remarkably naive.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not "anti-Putin" per se but it is extremely difficult IMHO to suggest that frequently his actions are anything other than dictatorial and confrontational, even if he does believe these actions to be best for Russia.
These are not the actions of a friend, they are the actions of an enemy.
He is improving things for the average Russian in some ways though almost certainly not anywhere near as much as is possible, and that is to the cost of every Russian citizen and to the rest of the world.

Given the remarkable riches upon which Russia sits that ranges from the black gold of oil and gas to precious minerals, when the average Russian's quality of life and standard of living remains so woefully below that of your average European there's no wonder that so many Russians leave and the economic migrants from Africa which pervade much of Europe are not exactly queueing at their borders.
The numbers of Russia's population - although currently stable - today is below that of 1994 whereas by contrast all the other "superpowers" have seen their populations expand significantly.
In wealth as in the number of citizens, Russia is in real terms shrinking while most of the rest of the world is growing so AFAIC that's one "fail" for Putin's methods.
It certainly suggests that Putin is an enemy of his own people because of these failures rather than a benefactor.

Then there's his almost Napoleonesque "little man" attitudes which range from bare-chested horseriding and wrestling (yes really) to the downright fear which has seen Putin jail objectors and potential adversaries in addition to seeing him extend in Russian law the period for which he can retain power.
Now (he's already 68) he could remain President until 2036 ....... unless of course he changes the law again before then and who knows, at the age of 83 if he reaches he might have either found a replacement or simply have had enough?
Again it's IMHO difficult to describe such actions as anything other than dictatorial and again such things point towards Putin's enmity towards any opposition.
Strike two then.

The "biggie" next with Putin's blatant disregard for global norms and laws.
From the Sergei Skripal/Salisbury incident here on British soil to the annexation of Crimea and from proven hacking attempts around Covid treatments to the use of covert social media in attempts to influence Western elections, these are not the actions of a friendly country.
They are the actions of an enemy and they are ongoing, as we can all see very clearly.

I'm not for one mad moment suggesting that Russia is the only enemy because we have plenty, but an enemy they certainly are.
And that's a shame for all of us (Russian and British as well as all the others affected), because all of us are paying the cost in one way or another.

I also fully accept that there are two sides to every story, and that some will try to explain Putin's actions in an alternate manner.
That's fine if that's your approach, even if the suggestion that our own intelligence services poisoned Skripal does seem a bit "tinfoil-hat" conspiracy-theory crazy to me.
It still isn't exactly helping either the average Russian or indeed anybody else though regarding the things posted above.
Russians are still downtrodden and (relatively) poor and there's still a war in Ukraine.

Re: BoJo picks a fight with Russia.

Mmmm it looks like I need a double thickness tin foil hat …

Re: BoJo picks a fight with Russia.

Yep Vlad, we couldn't possibly act as devious as those horrible Russians. Go back to sleep and don't concern yourself with these imaginings.....

Calling everything that you don't believe in, a conspiracy theory, is a tried and trusted method of closing down any discussion Vlad, but it doesn't mean it's wrong.....

Re: BoJo picks a fight with Russia.

We are at the mercy of the media Zaphod....
Everything we know about the Russians comes through the media unless you have lived in Russian shoes for a few years. The Russians I've seen been interviewed on travel programmes seem to have the same opinion as we do about our government, some think Putin is doing a good job, and others don't like his methods. Without delving deep into the political career of Putin (which is not something I want to waste my time on) I just observe from afar, and I admire the man and his ideals.
Are we not overpopulated here in the UK? So really Putin is doing the best for his country by not allowing the population to get out of control. There are lots of posts on the forum wishing that our government had some balls, but when a leader demonstrates that he has got some balls we step back in amazement and refer to human rights....I also am victim to the ramblings of the media and perhaps you are correct about Putin's motives, but I sometimes question what I'm being spoon fed by the press and government and need to ask the question 'What If?'

Re: BoJo picks a fight with Russia.

Crimea is Russian.