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13-08-2019, 11:28 PM
11

Re: National Service

Originally Posted by spitfire ->
Like a Borstal?
Borstal is run by the prison services , the point is trying to avoid them falling into a criminal environment.

They used to take boys on training ships , lads whose fathers might have been lost at sea etc. It gave them an education with training for various skills but they weren't prisoners.

The underlying message for the youngsters would be if they got into a bad place, that would be next stop. It might deter many of them who run riot in the classrooms, who swear at teachers, and fail to understand the meaning of respect to anyone.
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13-08-2019, 11:57 PM
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Re: National Service

Originally Posted by pathfinder ->
I was talking to one of my neighbours and he thinks we should
bring back National Service to sort out the young team that are out of control like the stabbings in London.
My argument with that is a lot of them are on drugs
I was in the army in the 1970s and a few tours in Ireland you watched each others back you depended on the man next to you and he on you so I don't see how bringing that back would work out in todays world
No. National Service is not the answer.
Why lumber the army with dross?

The real answer is 'short, sharp shock' punishments.
Hard labour.

For a first offence, say, a week of it. I think that would make it quite clear to the thickest criminal that it isn't worth it.

For subsequent offences, longer periods of hard labour. No work = no food (though water would be provided; I'm not completely heartless). Hunger is a great driver.

For more serious offences, though, I feel that far more harsh punishments are in order. Corporal punishment, although of course I know many hand-wringers would be appalled at the prospect. Strangely, the same people don't seem to be appalled at young girls being raped, etc, etc.

And, as I have said many times, capital punishment for murder. That wouldn't cost the taxpayer thousands in keeping them in luxury prisons and, of course, they would never do it again!
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13-08-2019, 11:58 PM
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Re: National Service

Nah. As usual I won't speak for the UK or it's armed forces. But I think an army these days is too sophisticated and high tech even at the national service level to be any use in rehabilitating thugs. Maybe in the old days of the screaming sergeant major and his team of " 'orrible little maggots" but not now. The young soldiers we need and have are well educated, physically fit, dedicated, intelligent and disciplined from the get go. Leave it to the civil criminal justice system to deal with them. Civil and military justice should never mix in a society that is based on a separation of powers. Having said all that I think national service is a good thing. For the right people. As it is in Israel.
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14-08-2019, 07:48 AM
14

Re: National Service

Nations are on the decrease, so, it must follow that international service would be the modern equivalent.
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14-08-2019, 08:02 AM
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Re: National Service

Originally Posted by spitfire ->
Like a Borstal?
And learn how to make a bed block do circuit training
weight training double everywhere and be super fit and out run the police
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14-08-2019, 08:13 AM
16

Re: National Service

The moving finger writes and having writ moves on.

The whole of society has changed. Now we have several societies attempting to co-exist and it's creating instability.

Britain has become a geographical feature, it is no longer a nation. That is the consequence of attempting to create the impossible, a multicultural single society.

This is not a thing that can be rolled back, national service is meaningless when there is no single nation. Nor are there any common values across the range of "cultures" other than survival and wanting the most that can be had.

National service? Pffft.

There no longer IS a nation.
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14-08-2019, 08:20 AM
17

Re: National Service

Originally Posted by The Artful Todger ->
It would never work.

Society has changed too much and it can never be returned to what it once was.
I agree Artful...times change. The best solution.is a thriving economy to create real opportunity and give kids some ambition and self esteem.
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14-08-2019, 09:34 AM
18

Re: National Service

I was a National Serviceman from 1953 to 1955.

On the plus side it helped me to become more properly mature. I was actually called up at the age of 22 having got deferment to finish my studies. I was full of book learning and utterly naÔve in terms of human relationships. By the time I was demobbed I was much more self-confident and ready to enter Ďproperí employment and to mix with all sorts of people.

But there was a minus side. Yes, I did learn how to kill people in all sorts of ways and I am glad to say I was never called upon to put this skill into practice. But I also had to cope with meaningless practices and rules. When not actually fighting a war, the army tends to keep busy on many pointless (and boring) activities. I also learned to view my superiors with suspicion if not utter contempt. You could easily get into trouble for things you hadnít done. You could just as easily get away with things you actually had done. I personally think that the swinging sixties was in part due to people who had competed their National Service viewing all authority with suspicion.

So, I am not in favour of young people spending time in the Services but I am all in favour of gap years and various programmes for voluntary service. Such an activity could do good in the world as well helping the youngsters to grow up a bit more.
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14-08-2019, 10:58 AM
19

Re: National Service

Originally Posted by The Artful Todger ->
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on.

The whole of society has changed. Now we have several societies attempting to co-exist and it's creating instability.

Britain has become a geographical feature, it is no longer a nation. That is the consequence of attempting to create the impossible, a multicultural single society.

This is not a thing that can be rolled back, national service is meaningless when there is no single nation. Nor are there any common values across the range of "cultures" other than survival and wanting the most that can be had.

National service? Pffft.

There no longer IS a nation.
You're absolutely correct.

We cannot accurately be described as 'English' any more. For a thousand years we have been an Anglo-Saxon-Norman culture, but no longer.

That is evidenced by the fact that many people now no longer feel proud to be British.
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14-08-2019, 11:04 AM
20

Re: National Service

Originally Posted by summer ->
I agree Artful...times change. The best solution.is a thriving economy to create real opportunity and give kids some ambition and self esteem.
I doubt it.

Many will prefer to live off benefits (it's easier) and supplement their income by criminal activities (it's more rewarding and less likelihood of being caught and punished).
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