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Realist
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04-12-2018, 10:40 PM
1

Private Cark Park Tickets (PCNs)

Overstayed my limit at a new Retail park couple of weeks ago, hadn't seen any signs, just drove in and spent 3 hours in a coffee shop chatting to an old work colleague who I hadn't seen for 10 years.

Euro Car Parks promptly sent me a PCN (Parking Charge Notice) for £90 discounted to £50 if paid within 14 days.

I've been a victim of these type of parking cowboys before.

This time, having seen the advice on MoneySavingExpert forum I was able to get clued up and fortunately succeeded at the first hurdle.

I found out who runs/operates/owns the retail park via Google and emailed them, explained that I was a genuine customer and hadn't seen the signs etc and asked for the ticket to be cancelled.

They agreed to do so.

£90 ticket avoided.


I raise this because there will be others who have already been caught by these fraudulent schemes and many who in the future who will become victims.

The advice now is 100% NOT to pay these fines as in many cases they are unlawful and much of the time rejected when it comes to the small claims court and many times well before that point.

You DO NOT IGNORE the tickets and letters however, but rather just embark on a very well established path of steady actions. Those actions begin with contacting the shop or outlet or hospital etc where the incident occurred, writing a letter or email that is pretty assertive and which complains about being persecuted and threatened with parking tickets just for being a customer etc. MANY times that action alone is enough to see the shop/outlet manager contact the parking firm to get the ticket cancelled.

If that doesn't work then you follow the established advice from MSE. You log an appeal with the parking firm which they dutifully reject (always expected) and you work your way towards the small claims court.

By this time you establish a firm defence based around your circumstances and the failing of the parking firm which usually involves totally inadequate signage, not having actually authority to issue tickets at all from the landowner and so on.


Here's the starting link for newbies who have had a ticket:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com....php?t=4816822
Julie1962
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04-12-2018, 10:54 PM
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Re: Private Cark Park Tickets (PCNs)

I can't say I've ever over stayed anywhere but a hospital. Usually found the hospital supremely unworried about it or how it makes them look. Luckily have a lovely legal lady sorted it out for me for no charge.
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04-12-2018, 11:11 PM
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Re: Private Cark Park Tickets (PCNs)

Well done realist,
Usually the law is with the parking companies thanks to the courts siding with them in a court case a few years ago, there is a private members bill going through parliament that should treat parking fines more fairly..should it be successful..
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04-12-2018, 11:11 PM
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Re: Private Cark Park Tickets (PCNs)

Luckily, here in NI, these cowboys have no jurisdiction whatsoever

I got two on the same day in the same car park, I threw them in the bin and the follow up letters and nothing has come from it

However they do catch poor unsuspecting souls who think they are actual tickets and pay up
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04-12-2018, 11:12 PM
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Re: Private Cark Park Tickets (PCNs)

They are not fines, but the rest of what you have said is correct. If anyone gets a private parking charge from an unregulated parking company, do not ignore if the Keeper lives in England or Wales, and do not pay no matter where you live. Appeal if the Keeper lives in England or Wales using the information from the moneysavingexpert parking ticket forum.
Unless it is your own parking space, do not reveal the identity of the driver. Never ever say, I parked, or anything similar. The Keeper has protection in law that The Driver does not.
Complain to the landowner.
Complain to your MP.
Ignore debt collectors as they have no powers.
Do not ignore real court papers.

The laws in Scotland and NI are different, as the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 does not apply there. Only the driver can be held liable in those areas, not the Keeper, so it is even more important not to reveal the driver's identity. The best way to do this is to ignore the scammers (UK MPs words) and have no contact unless real court papers are issued in Scotland and NI.
Note that this advice does not apply in England and Wales.
Realist
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04-12-2018, 11:42 PM
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Re: Private Cark Park Tickets (PCNs)

Yep the laws will be changing soon I believe so the writing is on the wall for these scam merchants.
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05-12-2018, 12:02 AM
7

Re: Private Cark Park Tickets (PCNs)

I got one of these about four years ago after parking for over two hours while shopping and having a meal in a Morrisons supermarket store.
I spoke to the assistant store manager who cancelled it for me.

I later found out that the company doing this was owned by one of these scam merchants that used to clamp vehicles and charge exorbitant release fees.

Theres always some crook who takes advantage of others.
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05-12-2018, 01:29 AM
8

Re: Private Cark Park Tickets (PCNs)

Clamping on private land has been banned since 2012, but the private parking companies that still operate use "credit clamping" to extort money from the unwary.

Far too many people pay up as soon as they receive a parking charge notice, or give away the driver's details when they appeal and shoot themselves in the foot instead of making a keeper appeal.

When faced with a court claim, many more fold and pay instead of fighting these unfair invoices.
Parking scammers (UK MPs' words) make their money by using bully tactics, often lying in the process, to convince people they have no other option.

If everyone refuses to pay and went to court, the whole court system would collapse under the weight of spurious claims.
If everyone affected complained to their MPs, they would not have enough time to deal with trifling matters such as Brexit.


Hopefully the private members bill being progressed by Sir Greg Knight will curb the excesses of these unregulated shysters, but who knows.
Anyone and everyone affected should complain to their MP. It really is the only way to stop this unregulated scam industry.
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05-12-2018, 02:13 AM
9

Re: Private Cark Park Tickets (PCNs)

I think it is outrageous for anyone to charge for parking whether it is the local council or a private company.

Wollongong Council put parking meters in a small part of the CBD now they are wondering why the CBD shops are dying. I wonder if it is anything thing to do with the fact that all shopping malls in the municipality offer unlimited free parking?

BTW car clamping is effectively illegal here (well, you have to have the owner's permission first before you can clamp a car)
Realist
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05-12-2018, 10:06 AM
10

Re: Private Cark Park Tickets (PCNs)

I have no issues with the need to regulate and control parking. It is a social problem, a collective issue we all have to deal with. There are places we should not park, for safety reasons, there are places we should only park for a limited time in order to give everyone a reasonable chance to park there.

There is also no problem issuing significant parking fines to those who breach the parking rules because without them noone would pay the rules any heed.

What matters here is the transparency of the companies operating the parking schemes. Currently they operate on the fraudulent strategy of being as covert as possible so that the public don't realise they are on private land and that severe penalties will be served if they overstay.

They effectively attempt to entrap motorists into a CONTRACT by them entering and staying in the car park but without the motorist realsing they entered into that contract. Hence most of these places have poor signage and what signs exist are covered in tiny small print.

The entire system wholly relies on the public not realising the terms and conditions of that contract which then sees many motorists over stay the parking time limit inadvertently.

Once that happens the cowboy outfits embark on a long stream of threatening debt collection letters.

This is where government MUST step in. They must make it compulsory for these outfits to comply with a number of regulations which should include:

1) Declaring they have permission from the landownder to issue PCNs on that land and giving a copy of the contract to local council

2) Putting up very large signs at the entrance to the car park stating that it is a contractual business with severe penalties.

3) Putting up large signs all around the car park which contain some standard phrases (to be agreed by government) much like tobacco manufactures have to put standard warnings on cigarette packets.

4) Ensuring that the font size of the signs and required warnings are a certain height and certain colour


In short the motorist must 100% know upon entry and also when parking in a bay that they are entering into a contract with the parking company. There must be no doubts whatsoever, no possibility of mistake or misunderstanding.

They could in fact mandate that all car parks have a barrier and a machine that provides a ticket or which just has an electronic sign that says "Max Stay 2 Hours, £100 fine" so the motorist can not miss it.


Once such measures are in place, these cowboy outfits will disappear.
 

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