20-12-2018, 05:39 PM
41
Re: Why are people so surprised?
Originally Posted by Twink55
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Many on this forum gave their reason for voting "leave" around the time we voted. Anybody that didn't see them was either uninterested, or not a member at that time!Itsme, if you want to know the reason I voted leave, and can ask in a polite manner I will tell you... but not until you display good manners.
Once again, I did not listen to Johnson, Farrage or Gove so they had no influence on my vote
20-12-2018, 07:36 PM
42
Re: Why are people so surprised?
Originally Posted by itsme
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Would you pretty please give a reason? There is that polite enough for you?
1) The EU intend to create a States of Europe... a bit like the USA and I certainly didn't want to live in a country so large where one government would control us. This is the way they have been moving for years and why would any intelligent person want 26 other countries deciding what our priorites & needs should be?
Do you think every state in the USA is treated equally? If you do you should visit them all and ask the people who live in them!
2) France didn't want the supposed refugees that gathered in Calais, and did little to prevent them coming across the channel. Germany welcomed them, till they realized that the majority were economic migrants and not refugees. If they listened to how Australia dealt with them, I suspect that the island they would have chosen to put them on, till they had been proved to be genuine refugees, could well have been Britain... seeing as that is where they all wanted to go to! After seeing all the problems they caused in Sweden & Germany I am sure the other 26 votes would have been for moving them here.... if we were already being ruled by the States of Europe government!
3) Our own government did not think we would vote to leave, so demonstrated they had little idea what the British people wanted, and a lot of them assisted in moves to prevent us leaving. They believed that they could prevent us leaving, despite the democratic vote.... and it does no harm to let MP's know that their job is to do what the people want.
Most who voted leave were aware that it may create a few lean years, but that seemed preferable to being controlled by the votes of 26 other states..... so money was not our priority!
Being part of a much bigger country, where control was in the hands of 26 others, was not attractive... and unlike the USA, many British people would not pressured into believing the States of Europe was the best country in the world!
I am sure you won't agree with my ideas, but it isn't me you have to convince, it is the other 51.9% who voted leave for their own reasons, because I won't change my mind no matter what anybody says!
20-12-2018, 08:03 PM
44
Re: Why are people so surprised?
Originally Posted by twink55
->
thank you, i will now explains my reasons.1) the eu intend to create a states of europe... A bit like the usa and i certainly didn't want to live in a country so large where one government would control us. This is the way they have been moving for years and why would any intelligent person want 26 other countries deciding what our priorites & needs should be?
Do you think every state in the usa is treated equally? If you do you should visit them all and ask the people who live in them!
2) france didn't want the supposed refugees that gathered in calais, and did little to prevent them coming across the channel. Germany welcomed them, till they realized that the majority were economic migrants and not refugees. If they listened to how australia dealt with them, i suspect that the island they would have chosen to put them on, till they had been proved to be genuine refugees, could well have been britain... Seeing as that is where they all wanted to go to! After seeing all the problems they caused in sweden & germany i am sure the other 26 votes would have been for moving them here.... If we were already being ruled by the states of europe government!
3) our own government did not think we would vote to leave, so demonstrated they had little idea what the british people wanted, and a lot of them assisted in moves to prevent us leaving. They believed that they could prevent us leaving, despite the democratic vote.... And it does no harm to let mp's know that their job is to do what the people want.
Most who voted leave were aware that it may create a few lean years, but that seemed preferable to being controlled by the votes of 26 other states..... So money was not our priority!
Being part of a much bigger country, where control was in the hands of 26 others, was not attractive... And unlike the usa, many british people would not pressured into believing the states of europe was the best country in the world!
I am sure you won't agree with my ideas, but it isn't me you have to convince, it is the other 51.9% who voted leave for their own reasons, because i won't change my mind no matter what anybody says!
20-12-2018, 09:37 PM
45
Re: Why are people so surprised?
Originally Posted by Twink55
->
Thank you, I will now explains my reasons.1) The EU intend to create a States of Europe... a bit like the USA and I certainly didn't want to live in a country so large where one government would control us. This is the way they have been moving for years and why would any intelligent person want 26 other countries deciding what our priorites & needs should be?
Do you think every state in the USA is treated equally? If you do you should visit them all and ask the people who live in them!
2) France didn't want the supposed refugees that gathered in Calais, and did little to prevent them coming across the channel. Germany welcomed them, till they realized that the majority were economic migrants and not refugees. If they listened to how Australia dealt with them, I suspect that the island they would have chosen to put them on, till they had been proved to be genuine refugees, could well have been Britain... seeing as that is where they all wanted to go to! After seeing all the problems they caused in Sweden & Germany I am sure the other 26 votes would have been for moving them here.... if we were already being ruled by the States of Europe government!
3) Our own government did not think we would vote to leave, so demonstrated they had little idea what the British people wanted, and a lot of them assisted in moves to prevent us leaving. They believed that they could prevent us leaving, despite the democratic vote.... and it does no harm to let MP's know that their job is to do what the people want.
Most who voted leave were aware that it may create a few lean years, but that seemed preferable to being controlled by the votes of 26 other states..... so money was not our priority!
Being part of a much bigger country, where control was in the hands of 26 others, was not attractive... and unlike the USA, many British people would not pressured into believing the States of Europe was the best country in the world!
I am sure you won't agree with my ideas, but it isn't me you have to convince, it is the other 51.9% who voted leave for their own reasons, because I won't change my mind no matter what anybody says!
I'm rather surprised that every other EU country seems unconcerned about their loss of sovereignty too, but give it time. I have a feeling that Germany may not be too worried about that small matter though, for some reason!
Of course, the poorer European members are happy to forego the loss of their sovereignty if it means they have a guaranteed nett income from the EU, but I wonder how they might feel if and when they're better off.
Sadly, for some (eg, Greece) it is quite likely that they never will be better off!
20-12-2018, 09:43 PM
46
Re: Why are people so surprised?
Originally Posted by Twink55
->
Thank you, I will now explains my reasons.I am sure you won't agree with my ideas, because I won't change my mind no matter what anybody says!
What's going on there? Why do people so tenaciously stick to the views they've already formed? Shouldn't a*cognitive*mind be open to evidence...to the facts...to reason? Well, that's hopeful but naïve.
Quite literally, our views and opinions may help protect us, keep us safe, literally help us survive. Small wonder then that we fight so hard to keep those walls strong and tall.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...urs-is-hard-do
To summarize, the brexiteers are beyond hope.
21-12-2018, 09:01 AM
47
Re: Why are people so surprised?
Originally Posted by Solasch
->
There are a lot of psychological terms for the fact that people don't like to change their minds; "motivated reasoning", "confirmation*bias", "cognitive dissonance". But you don't need academic semantics to know that trying to get somebody to see things your way is tough if they go into the argument with another point of view. You argue the facts, as thoughtfully and non-confrontationally as you can, but the facts don't seem to get you anywhere. The wall of the other person's opinion doesn't move. They don't seem to WANT it to move.What's going on there? Why do people so tenaciously stick to the views they've already formed? Shouldn't a*cognitive*mind be open to evidence...to the facts...to reason? Well, that's hopeful but naïve.
Quite literally, our views and opinions may help protect us, keep us safe, literally help us survive. Small wonder then that we fight so hard to keep those walls strong and tall.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...urs-is-hard-do
To summarize, the brexiteers are beyond hope.
1) I have read to your posts and they demonstrate that your ideas are motivated by the loss of income for the Netherlands, seeing as you say the majority of our imports come from there! Why should I consider that when making my decision, especially when many in your own country would like to leave the EU?
We had the guts to do it, so perhaps you should be telling your own people that they shouldn't leave, rather than trying to convince the British that they are making a mistake
2) I have been to the Netherlands and found it to be a nice country, but I didn't criticize their politics as I don't live there. Wouldn't it be nice if those who live in EU countries offered Britain the same courtesy?......Mind you, many of them are still living under EU control.
3) I have always been a strong person that makes decisions based on facts. I look at the pros and cons of making my decision & then decide which is the best way to go forward. I have never regretted any major decisions I have made in life, so why should I listen to David Ropeik ideas when I have gone through life very well, without his opinions?
If you have to find quotes off the internet to convince me I am wrong, I wouldn't bother, because I will always be able to find other quotes that say something different!
21-12-2018, 09:53 AM
48
Re: Why are people so surprised?
Originally Posted by Twink55
->
Let me explain my reasons for not listening to your views!1) I have read to your posts and they demonstrate that your ideas are motivated by the loss of income for the Netherlands, seeing as you say the majority of our imports come from there! Why should I consider that when making my decision, especially when many in your own country would like to leave the EU?
We had the guts to do it, so perhaps you should be telling your own people that they shouldn't leave, rather than trying to convince the British that they are making a mistake
2) I have been to the Netherlands and found it to be a nice country, but I didn't criticize their politics as I don't live there. Wouldn't it be nice if those who live in EU countries offered Britain the same courtesy?......Mind you, many of them are still living under EU control.
3) I have always been a strong person that makes decisions based on facts. I look at the pros and cons of making my decision & then decide which is the best way to go forward. I have never regretted any major decisions I have made in life, so why should I listen to David Ropeik ideas when I have gone through life very well, without his opinions?
If you have to find quotes off the internet to convince me I am wrong, I wouldn't bother, because I will always be able to find other quotes that say something different!
21-12-2018, 10:49 AM
49
Re: Why are people so surprised?
Originally Posted by Solasch
->
There are a lot of psychological terms for the fact that people don't like to change their minds; "motivated reasoning", "confirmation*bias", "cognitive dissonance". But you don't need academic semantics to know that trying to get somebody to see things your way is tough if they go into the argument with another point of view. You argue the facts, as thoughtfully and non-confrontationally as you can, but the facts don't seem to get you anywhere. The wall of the other person's opinion doesn't move. They don't seem to WANT it to move.What's going on there? Why do people so tenaciously stick to the views they've already formed? Shouldn't a*cognitive*mind be open to evidence...to the facts...to reason? Well, that's hopeful but naïve.
Quite literally, our views and opinions may help protect us, keep us safe, literally help us survive. Small wonder then that we fight so hard to keep those walls strong and tall.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...urs-is-hard-do
To summarize, the brexiteers are beyond hope.
Your post is simply wrong, us Brits are more than capable ion changing our minds.
21-12-2018, 10:59 AM
50
Re: Why are people so surprised?
Originally Posted by Bread
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In 1975 there UK voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU. After 40 years of membership we voted again in 2016 and voted to leave.Your post is simply wrong, us Brits are more than capable ion changing our minds.
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