Join for free
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Muddy's Avatar
Muddy
Chatterbox
Muddy is offline
UK
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 31,286
Muddy is female  Muddy has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
19-07-2021, 08:14 PM
1

Pensions

A friend of mine has been sadly widowed
Her husband was still working when he died
She has been given half his pension although he said he wanted her to have it ( but didnít put it in writing ) the other half has gone to his three adult children from a previous marriage who are all in high paying occupations .
How can this be ?
I understand most pensions are only awarded to the spouse not children especially grown up children .
Can anyone explain this ?
I can only assume it was a private pension that formed part of his estate . He died intestate.
Roj Blake's Avatar
Roj Blake
Senior Member
Roj Blake is offline
London,UK
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 671
Roj Blake is male 
 
19-07-2021, 08:35 PM
2

Re: Pensions

Originally Posted by Muddy ->
A friend of mine has been sadly widowed
Her husband was still working when he died
She has been given half his pension although he said he wanted her to have it ( but didnít put it in writing ) the other half has gone to his three adult children from a previous marriage who are all in high paying occupations .
How can this be ?
I understand most pensions are only awarded to the spouse not children especially grown up children .
Can anyone explain this ?
I can only assume it was a private pension that formed part of his estate . He died intestate.
Hi Muddy
Sorry to hear about your friend.
If he didn't fill in a Expression of Wish Form then I think it automatically goes to the spouse,kids.
''An expression of wish is a document that allows the account holder to nominate a beneficiary/ies in the event of the account holder's death"
Minx's Avatar
Minx
Chatterbox
Minx is offline
South Africa
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 5,908
Minx is female  Minx has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
19-07-2021, 08:36 PM
3

Re: Pensions

Originally Posted by Muddy ->
A friend of mine has been sadly widowed
Her husband was still working when he died
She has been given half his pension although he said he wanted her to have it ( but didnít put it in writing ) the other half has gone to his three adult children from a previous marriage who are all in high paying occupations .
How can this be ?
I understand most pensions are only awarded to the spouse not children especially grown up children .
Can anyone explain this ?
I can only assume it was a private pension that formed part of his estate . He died intestate.
If UK pension funds are anything like SA pension funds, then the Trustees of the fund investigates the level of dependency and makes a decision accordingly. Iím not sure of the UK law but even with a dependent/beneficiary form completed, these are taken into consideration and not what the Trustees ultimately decide on. The trustees of the pension fund have the ultimate say.

When I was a trustee, we usually assessed and took a decision to pay all dependents a percentage of the pension to avoid litigation sometimes regardless of the level of dependency.

If he died intestate ( not knowing their marital regime) then payout follows per stirpes I am not certain of the laws in the UK but South Africa has a mixed legal system - a hybrid of Roman Dutch civilian law, English common law, customary law and religious personal law. The Roman Dutch civilian law and English common law influence reflects South Africa's history of successive colonial governance by the Dutch and English.

A mouthful of nothing above but does UK law have a piece of legislation similar to Maintenance of surviving spouse. She could fall back on that based on the marital regime.

Yet another instance why you should map out your financial plan and know what the impact will be on you as a women.

So sorry Muddy - I know the SA laws not certain how different it is up there.

Disclaimer: this is not financial advice. Consult an authorised financial advisor.

Big hug
Roj Blake's Avatar
Roj Blake
Senior Member
Roj Blake is offline
London,UK
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 671
Roj Blake is male 
 
19-07-2021, 08:38 PM
4

Re: Pensions

This is an example form.

https://www.aegon.co.uk/content/dam/...nomination.pdf
Minx's Avatar
Minx
Chatterbox
Minx is offline
South Africa
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 5,908
Minx is female  Minx has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
19-07-2021, 08:41 PM
5

Re: Pensions

Originally Posted by Roj Blake ->
Hi Muddy
Sorry to hear about your friend.
If he didn't fill in a Expression of Wish Form then I think it automatically goes to the spouse,kids.
''An expression of wish is a document that allows the account holder to nominate a beneficiary/ies in the event of the account holder's death"
Called a dependent/nominee/beneficiary form in SA
If itís an expression of wish form then that already tells me that the Trustees will consider the members wishes but make the final decision - just as we do in SA

Thanks Roj
Primus1's Avatar
Primus1
Senior Member
Primus1 is offline
York
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,648
Primus1 is male  Primus1 has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
19-07-2021, 08:49 PM
6

Re: Pensions

I have my private pension managed by my solicitor, should anything happen to me then my wife gets whatís left, weíve also just recently made a will Ö
Judd's Avatar
Judd
Chatterbox
Judd is offline
West Riding of Yorkshire
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 12,538
Judd is male  Judd has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
19-07-2021, 10:09 PM
7

Re: Pensions

Originally Posted by Muddy ->
A friend of mine has been sadly widowed
Her husband was still working when he died
She has been given half his pension although he said he wanted her to have it ( but didnít put it in writing ) the other half has gone to his three adult children from a previous marriage who are all in high paying occupations .
How can this be ?
I understand most pensions are only awarded to the spouse not children especially grown up children .
Can anyone explain this ?
I can only assume it was a private pension that formed part of his estate . He died intestate.
And there is the nub of the problem. If he didn't make his wishes known, the estate will go to spouse and immediate family. Traditionally, even without a will, the marital home will go to the surviving spouse. In this case, because it is a pension it was divided up as fifty percent to the spouse, the remaining fifty percent divided equally between surviving children. Presumably this is the lump sum payment, and she still gets a monthly pension?
Bruce's Avatar
Bruce
Chatterbox
Bruce is offline
Wollongong, Australia
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 15,218
Bruce is male  Bruce has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
20-07-2021, 12:24 AM
8

Re: Pensions

I have requested (in an online form) that any remaining sum left from my superannuation be divided equally among my children however this is not binding on the trustees though they do state that they will try to follow your wishes.

Have no idea what else they would do with the money.
Percy Vere's Avatar
Percy Vere
Senior Member
Percy Vere is offline
Wilds and woolly wastes of Staffordshire, UK
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 4,792
Percy Vere is male  Percy Vere has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
20-07-2021, 04:12 PM
9

Re: Pensions

Originally Posted by Bruce ->
I have requested (in an online form) that any remaining sum left from my superannuation be divided equally among my children however this is not binding on the trustees though they do state that they will try to follow your wishes.

Have no idea what else they would do with the money.
I remember this is a clause that was part of my "Expression of Wishes" form I signed when I joined my last company's pension scheme. Hopefully, V gets Ĺ of my company pension when I pop off. Likewise, she did the same for me.

We made our wills (what are commonly known as "mirror wills") soon after we married, although I had already written one that left everything I owned to V soon after we started living together. We update them regularly as our circumstances change.
Muddy's Avatar
Muddy
Chatterbox
Muddy is offline
UK
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 31,286
Muddy is female  Muddy has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
20-07-2021, 04:22 PM
10

Re: Pensions

Originally Posted by Judd ->
And there is the nub of the problem. If he didn't make his wishes known, the estate will go to spouse and immediate family. Traditionally, even without a will, the marital home will go to the surviving spouse. In this case, because it is a pension it was divided up as fifty percent to the spouse, the remaining fifty percent divided equally between surviving children. Presumably this is the lump sum payment, and she still gets a monthly pension?
I donít know Judd as he was still working and not claiming it .
I canít think why he didnít have a will I have had a will since my first child was born .

The spouse of someone who dies intestate only gets the first £270000 of the house ( and itís worth over £500k ) this sounds a lot but in fact in that area is average. It a very ordinary house .These are the rules of intestacy.
She will also be entitled to half of what is left .
So if the house sells for 500k
And there is 230k left she is entitled to £115k of this .
( hopefully)

So she will get £385k which sounds a lot but doesnít buy much in Surrey when all the agents fees etc are taken into account.

So she has to move out somewhere else she also gets all the personal possessions but she already gave them away to his children.
My poor friend feels so betrayed she is a good person she met their father long after he had been divorced from his first wife and they are all grown up and doing extremely well.
At first they said they didnít want his pension and then they changed their minds .
Usually if you have already retired and claiming a pension it can only go to the spouse . The reason being that if it went to the children the pension company would be paying out for decades.

So important to have a will in place .
She is now ill herself and not able to work I do t know how she will go on .She is 60+ but is not yet at retiring age
 
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Thread Tools


© Copyright 2009, Over50sForum   Contact Us | Over 50s Forum! | Archive | Privacy Statement | Terms of Use | Top

Powered by vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.