....laughing here
14-05-2020, 11:11 AM
32
Re: Kier versus Boris.
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
->
HiWe have not done well.
The Government is about news management.
We have had weeks of daily briefings which had a slide of how many deaths there are, comparing the UK with others.
These have now stopped when we became the worst reporting.
This is not about Political points scoring, it is about the system, a combination of which ever party is in power and the Civil Service.
Things need to change, we have accepted stupidity for too long.
We deserve better.
Nevertheless, the point scoring is still unhelpful, childish, and incredibly boring Swim.
14-05-2020, 01:30 PM
33
Re: Kier versus Boris.
Originally Posted by Rainmaker
->
Starmer, the man who used the VE celebrations in a Telegraph article to make a political point about the treatment of the generation who fought the war, who were fighting for democracy, sovereignty and the freedom to live the way we choose. Yet had spent the best part of the final run up to Brexit fighting to bring about the opposite by throwing up obstacles to Brexit and supporting staying in the EUThe man who said he would not use Corona virus to score political points, yet does just that.
The man who while he was head of the Crown Prosecution Service presided of several fiascoes.
Why would anyone worry about a chancer like him just because he has the the gift of the gab and ability to twist the truth, I mean who trusts Barristers these days. I certainly don't.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EX6XjrCX...g&name=900x900
14-05-2020, 01:33 PM
34
Re: Kier versus Boris.
Originally Posted by Mups
->
Nevertheless, the point scoring is still unhelpful, childish, and incredibly boring Swim.
15-05-2020, 11:55 AM
35
Re: Kier versus Boris.
I was thinking about Starmers constant bitching about the COVID-19 death rates in care homes last night and the cheap shots being thrown at the government.Here are a few points to consider from last nights ponderings...
1. For a start, care homes are mostly under private ownership because the councils sold them off years ago, so the government isn't really responsible for them in the same way as it is responsible for the NHS. Starmer is giving an illusion that the government is responsible for the private sector which is not correct.
2. The governments priority so far has been to get the NHS ready so that everyone (including people that live in care homes) can get the treatment they need when they need it.
3. Care homes are dense communities with a lot of people living together under one roof, sharing community spaces such as bathrooms, kitchens, TV rooms etc where a virus can spread quickly and easily. A good example of how quickly the virus spreads is what we saw in Italy where people are crammed in apartment buildings and most likely caught the virus from not just other people, but from touching communal areas such as hand-rails, doors, elevator buttons etc.
4. Old people have very poor immune systems anyway
5. Its common for old people to have other underlying health problems - everything from cancer, diabetes, lung disease such as COPD, mental illness etc making them much more susceptible to a death with COVID-19 than someone healthy.
6. Carers going and in and out of care-homes can catch the virus from their families, infect a whole care home and be completely asymptomatic.
7. The elderly people themselves can also be completely asymptomatic and spread the virus to other people in the home.
8. Even though carers can wear PPE, the virus can still be present on the PPE itself and it can be spread that way. PPE does not necessarily protect other people.
10. It would be extremely difficult to get old people to wear facemarks and a visor because they would not fit them very well as they have little facial muscular support, a lot are on oxygen or asthmatic and also need frequent tablets and medication so would be constantly removing/putting back on face masks throughout the day, touching faces with infected hands etc etc and giving themselves the virus.
11. Alzheimers and the elderly with mental health problems would have little chance of wearing facemasks, visors, gowns etc because they would be far too confused, become distressed and remove them themselves.
12. There is a large proportion of incontinent old people who need changing regularly with 2 carers present. This exposes carers to the spread of the virus when undressing and dressing patients, changing PPE etc etc and touching surfaces.
13. Old people could just refuse point blank to wear PPE - there are a lot of elderly people who would refuse to cooperate.
14. Old people tend to not want to be a fuss and can delay communicating symptoms until its too late. They are also reluctant to go to hospital for the same reasons and die as a result.
15. Deaths are being reported differently during the pandemic, where a doctor can certify a "death with COVID-19" certificate without a second opinion - only a confirmation by a coroner is needed which 99% of the time is just a formality. These figures could be (most likely) hugely inflated to give a negative bias to UK death rates in total and those reported from care homes. A patient dying in a care home where COVID-19 has been reported would be included in this category, even if they have ni symptoms and cancer was the main cause.
16. Performing COVID-19 tests is extremely uncomfortable and very invasive. It would be very difficult and cause all manner of problems carrying out these tests on the elderly who already have underlying serious health conditions. Especially for alzheimers, mental health, respiratory and the very frail. In fact the test could cause harm them or even kill the patient in some cases.
17. Repeat testing would be extremely difficult as the elderly will start to refuse and because of point 16 above.
Just my 2 cents.
EDIT : By the way, there are thousands of care homes in the UK that have no COVID-19 cases, or COVID-19 deaths.
15-05-2020, 12:58 PM
36
Re: Kier versus Boris.
Originally Posted by Bread
->
I was thinking about Starmers constant bitching about the COVID-19 death rates in care homes last night and the cheap shots being thrown at the government.Here are a few points to consider from last nights ponderings...
1. For a start, care homes are mostly under private ownership because the councils sold them off years ago, so the government isn't really responsible for them in the same way as it is responsible for the NHS. Starmer is giving an illusion that the government is responsible for the private sector which is not correct.
2. The governments priority so far has been to get the NHS ready so that everyone (including people that live in care homes) can get the treatment they need when they need it.
3. Care homes are dense communities with a lot of people living together under one roof, sharing community spaces such as bathrooms, kitchens, TV rooms etc where a virus can spread quickly and easily. A good example of how quickly the virus spreads is what we saw in Italy where people are crammed in apartment buildings and most likely caught the virus from not just other people, but from touching communal areas such as hand-rails, doors, elevator buttons etc.
4. Old people have very poor immune systems anyway
5. Its common for old people to have other underlying health problems - everything from cancer, diabetes, lung disease such as COPD, mental illness etc making them much more susceptible to a death with COVID-19 than someone healthy.
6. Carers going and in and out of care-homes can catch the virus from their families, infect a whole care home and be completely asymptomatic.
7. The elderly people themselves can also be completely asymptomatic and spread the virus to other people in the home.
8. Even though carers can wear PPE, the virus can still be present on the PPE itself and it can be spread that way. PPE does not necessarily protect other people.
10. It would be extremely difficult to get old people to wear facemarks and a visor because they would not fit them very well as they have little facial muscular support, a lot are on oxygen or asthmatic and also need frequent tablets and medication so would be constantly removing/putting back on face masks throughout the day, touching faces with infected hands etc etc and giving themselves the virus.
11. Alzheimers and the elderly with mental health problems would have little chance of wearing facemasks, visors, gowns etc because they would be far too confused, become distressed and remove them themselves.
12. There is a large proportion of incontinent old people who need changing regularly with 2 carers present. This exposes carers to the spread of the virus when undressing and dressing patients, changing PPE etc etc and touching surfaces.
13. Old people could just refuse point blank to wear PPE - there are a lot of elderly people who would refuse to cooperate.
14. Old people tend to not want to be a fuss and can delay communicating symptoms until its too late. They are also reluctant to go to hospital for the same reasons and die as a result.
15. Deaths are being reported differently during the pandemic, where a doctor can certify a "death with COVID-19" certificate without a second opinion - only a confirmation by a coroner is needed which 99% of the time is just a formality. These figures could be (most likely) hugely inflated to give a negative bias to UK death rates in total and those reported from care homes. A patient dying in a care home where COVID-19 has been reported would be included in this category, even if they have ni symptoms and cancer was the main cause.
16. Performing COVID-19 tests is extremely uncomfortable and very invasive. It would be very difficult and cause all manner of problems carrying out these tests on the elderly who already have underlying serious health conditions. Especially for alzheimers, mental health, respiratory and the very frail. In fact the test could cause harm them or even kill the patient in some cases.
17. Repeat testing would be extremely difficult as the elderly will start to refuse and because of point 16 above.
Just my 2 cents.
EDIT : By the way, there are thousands of care homes in the UK that have no COVID-19 cases, or COVID-19 deaths.
Donkeyman!
15-05-2020, 03:18 PM
37
Re: Kier versus Boris.
HiWe have not done well, we deserved better.
Boris does not like taking decisions.
He has been sacked twice for telling lies.
He is also a lazy git.
Kier may well be an arse, he is also a top line Barrister who I would have been very wary of in Court.
That is why people like him earned vastly more than me.
He has caught Boris out lying and he will continue to pick away at him.
He is a much more formidable opponent than Corbyn.
Corbyn and Abbott are totally unelectable.
Kier will be a huge problem for Boris.
15-05-2020, 03:26 PM
38
Re: Kier versus Boris.
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
->
HiWe have not done well, we deserved better.
Boris does not like taking decisions.
He has been sacked twice for telling lies.
He is also a lazy git.
Kier may well be an arse, he is also a top line Barrister who I would have been very wary of in Court.
That is why people like him earned vastly more than me.
He has caught Boris out lying and he will continue to pick away at him.
He is a much more formidable opponent than Corbyn.
Corbyn and Abbott are totally unelectable.
Kier will be a huge problem for Boris.
If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
15-05-2020, 03:29 PM
39
Re: Kier versus Boris.
Originally Posted by Judd
->
A great pity then that rather offer some solutions to the current crisis, he would rather pick at the government and Boris in particular.If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
BTW, another excellent piece of work Bread.
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