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01-03-2017, 01:13 AM
1

What I think of Brexit

I thought I'd join a side finally so that the two forums had a bit more balance!

I was against Brexit for numerous reasons. But I've accepted the vote and the fact that we are leaving. I just want the Government to give the country as a whole a good deal and that means the EU citizens who have lived here for decades and made lives with us. It's appalling how they are being treated right now. It's because I feel so strongly about their fate & the behaviour of the Government in not giving them any certainty that I am posting on here now.

I also find it disappointing that people who voted leave think it's ok to call those with a different view all manner of insults. It's really rude and makes no sense given the situation. This rudeness seems to go on and on and makes it impossible to talk about the subject in a civil manner. It's become like mob rule and is led by the less savoury elements in the media.

Some of the reasons I was against it :

1. It's going to be a colossal waste of time and money, which we can't afford given our deficit. Nobody seems to be asking how much all this extra work to unpick all the joined up bits will cost. Some management consultants are already planning how they will spend it all.

2. some other already very rich people will make a huge amount of money out of it. Are already making money via speculating.

3. Some very poor people will end up far worse off. Not immediately but over time as the economy stalls due to lost efficiencies & we have to borrow more. This will be more apparent after article 50 is triggered and during the uncertain period of negotiations. More austerity to follow - yipee!

4. Economically it makes no sense to leave a trading block. This just increases transaction costs and complicates things for all concerned. One of our big competitive advantages as a nation was open access to the vast European market. This made investing here more appealing. There are layers upon layers of invisible (to the public) agreements keeping all sectors of industry moving.

5. European integration has prevented war in Europe. Division in Europe weakens the entire area and puts Britain at risk too (as history shows). Russia just loves the idea of the EU falling apart.

6. I am convinced that the EU will be sorting out the immigration issue anyway. All the stuff we didn't like could have been sorted out through some tough negotiations (ie. not cameron's attempt). But I think it will be sorted anyway because the pressures from within are so great. Meanwhile we will have spend oodles of money leaving.

7. I have never understood why we have a problem with immigration anyway - we are not in schengen and should have stricter border controls like other non-schengen countries (ie. the fault lies with us not with the EU).

8. I was very much against the way the Euro was introduced and the economic disparity between nations involved. But then we don't have the Euro here, although everyone still moans about it for some reason. From a practical point of view it is useful for Brits to have one currency when they travel there but many complain. Beyond me why - we are not affected adversely.

9. I liked not needing visas. They cost money and take time. I liked the idea that I could if I wanted just go and live or study in Europe with no problems, not that I've ever done so but it was nice the choice was there to retire to Spain and Italy without any complications.

10. I think it'sgreat to have so many Europeans here. Most of them speak English and are really friendly and open-minded. You go into a coffee shop and everyone working there is from Europe. These people work long shifts on a minimum wage and they manage to smile despite that. I can't imagine how they will be replaced. They have added a fair bit to the economy by working long hours for little money. It's actually the unskilled or semi skilled itinerant labour that's been the fuel for our economy and cheap goods in our shops. It will be sad if lots of small businesses run by EU citizens close. These people work as cheap cleaners, carers, builders, farm workers etc. How can anyone imagine prices won't go up and care home costs etc? I am bothered if people come here and then don't work, but not if they have come here to contribute to the economy.

11. I like the working time directive and other laws to protect employees.

12. I find it bizarre that some people mix up Brexit with a hatred of Muslims. When discussing Brexit, some people say they don't mind Europeans but they don't like all the Muslim terrorists. I really don't understand the connection.

13. It's distasteful that the campaign was fueled by reports that the NHS is overrun by immigrants from the EU and that's why it costs so much. When it's actually the ageing population and those with long term conditions that cause all the pressures together with a lack of funding for care provision for them (oh and PFI's)

14. The newspaper campaign and the way the press has behaved since is appalling. Really down there in the gutter. Also the bad news is being buried. We only see what we are being allowed to see. Which is creepy...

15. We didn't have a plan for this. This was one of my main reasons for voting against it. There was no plan and nobody seems to realise that's almost criminal. People are now saying that they voted for "this or that" and they should now get "this or that", but there was no detail of "this or that" in the referendum. It feels like the blind leading the blind at the moment if you watch some of the expert panels on the parliamentary channel.

So I am hoping common sense will prevail! But I think we will end up spending a lot of money only to end up a bit like Norway.

The positive thing is that this will force the government to examine & fix all the stuff that they should have been doing all along. Hey ho!
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01-03-2017, 02:11 AM
2

Re: What I think of Brexit

Some fantastic points Annie - thanks for sharing!

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
I also find it disappointing that people who voted leave think it's ok to call those with a different view all manner of insults. It's really rude and makes no sense given the situation. This rudeness seems to go on and on and makes it impossible to talk about the subject in a civil manner. It's become like mob rule and is led by the less savoury elements in the media.
Not on this forum I hope if you come across anyone making personal attacks please report the post and we'll look into it.


Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
It's become like mob rule and is led by the less savoury elements in the media.
The funny thing is just over half of those voting voted to leave - not everyone eligible voted so the Leavers do not represent the entire country let alone half of the population.

Also, just because the vote was in favour of leaving doesn't mean we have to accept it and think it's 'ok'. It's not ok, it is a stupid decision. It is also a one that reflects how easily one half of a (voting) population can be convinced to vote against itself.

That's more scary than the outcome.
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01-03-2017, 08:54 AM
3

Re: What I think of Brexit

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
I thought I'd join a side finally so that the two forums had a bit more balance!

I was against Brexit for numerous reasons. But I've accepted the vote and the fact that we are leaving. I just want the Government to give the country as a whole a good deal and that means the EU citizens who have lived here for decades and made lives with us. It's appalling how they are being treated right now. It's because I feel so strongly about their fate & the behaviour of the Government in not giving them any certainty that I am posting on here now.

I also find it disappointing that people who voted leave think it's ok to call those with a different view all manner of insults. It's really rude and makes no sense given the situation. This rudeness seems to go on and on and makes it impossible to talk about the subject in a civil manner. It's become like mob rule and is led by the less savoury elements in the media.

Some of the reasons I was against it :

1. It's going to be a colossal waste of time and money, which we can't afford given our deficit. Nobody seems to be asking how much all this extra work to unpick all the joined up bits will cost. Some management consultants are already planning how they will spend it all.

2. some other already very rich people will make a huge amount of money out of it. Are already making money via speculating.

3. Some very poor people will end up far worse off. Not immediately but over time as the economy stalls due to lost efficiencies & we have to borrow more. This will be more apparent after article 50 is triggered and during the uncertain period of negotiations. More austerity to follow - yipee!

4. Economically it makes no sense to leave a trading block. This just increases transaction costs and complicates things for all concerned. One of our big competitive advantages as a nation was open access to the vast European market. This made investing here more appealing. There are layers upon layers of invisible (to the public) agreements keeping all sectors of industry moving.

5. European integration has prevented war in Europe. Division in Europe weakens the entire area and puts Britain at risk too (as history shows). Russia just loves the idea of the EU falling apart.

6. I am convinced that the EU will be sorting out the immigration issue anyway. All the stuff we didn't like could have been sorted out through some tough negotiations (ie. not cameron's attempt). But I think it will be sorted anyway because the pressures from within are so great. Meanwhile we will have spend oodles of money leaving.

7. I have never understood why we have a problem with immigration anyway - we are not in schengen and should have stricter border controls like other non-schengen countries (ie. the fault lies with us not with the EU).

8. I was very much against the way the Euro was introduced and the economic disparity between nations involved. But then we don't have the Euro here, although everyone still moans about it for some reason. From a practical point of view it is useful for Brits to have one currency when they travel there but many complain. Beyond me why - we are not affected adversely.

9. I liked not needing visas. They cost money and take time. I liked the idea that I could if I wanted just go and live or study in Europe with no problems, not that I've ever done so but it was nice the choice was there to retire to Spain and Italy without any complications.

10. I think it'sgreat to have so many Europeans here. Most of them speak English and are really friendly and open-minded. You go into a coffee shop and everyone working there is from Europe. These people work long shifts on a minimum wage and they manage to smile despite that. I can't imagine how they will be replaced. They have added a fair bit to the economy by working long hours for little money. It's actually the unskilled or semi skilled itinerant labour that's been the fuel for our economy and cheap goods in our shops. It will be sad if lots of small businesses run by EU citizens close. These people work as cheap cleaners, carers, builders, farm workers etc. How can anyone imagine prices won't go up and care home costs etc? I am bothered if people come here and then don't work, but not if they have come here to contribute to the economy.

11. I like the working time directive and other laws to protect employees.

12. I find it bizarre that some people mix up Brexit with a hatred of Muslims. When discussing Brexit, some people say they don't mind Europeans but they don't like all the Muslim terrorists. I really don't understand the connection.

13. It's distasteful that the campaign was fueled by reports that the NHS is overrun by immigrants from the EU and that's why it costs so much. When it's actually the ageing population and those with long term conditions that cause all the pressures together with a lack of funding for care provision for them (oh and PFI's)

14. The newspaper campaign and the way the press has behaved since is appalling. Really down there in the gutter. Also the bad news is being buried. We only see what we are being allowed to see. Which is creepy...

15. We didn't have a plan for this. This was one of my main reasons for voting against it. There was no plan and nobody seems to realise that's almost criminal. People are now saying that they voted for "this or that" and they should now get "this or that", but there was no detail of "this or that" in the referendum. It feels like the blind leading the blind at the moment if you watch some of the expert panels on the parliamentary channel.

So I am hoping common sense will prevail! But I think we will end up spending a lot of money only to end up a bit like Norway.

The positive thing is that this will force the government to examine & fix all the stuff that they should have been doing all along. Hey ho!
You've said everything I've been trying to say in my own clumsy way!
What is really annoying me is that Cameron used the referendum promise to get re-elected as he saw UKIP were becoming popular. He didn't think it would work, but it did, you could see on his face that he was shocked to win.
Then he gave us the vote with no plans in place for the outcome as he didn't think that leave would win either!
Then he sneaks off and leaves everyone to sort it out.
Boris and Nigel would have done the same if Boris hadn't been stopped by May and Nigel hadn't seen an opportunity to get in the limelight again.
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01-03-2017, 09:43 AM
4

Re: What I think of Brexit

Originally Posted by Azz ->
The funny thing is just over half of those voting voted to leave - not everyone eligible voted so the Leavers do not represent the entire country let alone half of the population.

Also, just because the vote was in favour of leaving doesn't mean we have to accept it and think it's 'ok'. It's not ok, it is a stupid decision. It is also a one that reflects how easily one half of a (voting) population can be convinced to vote against itself.

That's more scary than the outcome.
I felt the same last year. But I have since accepted the decision to leave because there is no going back now.

We are where we are and now it's time to make the best of it and pressurise the Government to get the best deal for the future of Britain and to stop treating EU citizens living here like livestock.

Hearing Boris Johnson this morning saying we should be thinking about "Sunshine" instead of being gloomy about the sky falling in and telling us the economy will be healthy because we can sell processed pineapple to the USA just sums up the desperate rhetoric that is trying to persuade the public the Government know what they are doing with the future economy. This was a protest vote for many against the Eton elite including Johnson living lives of luxury while the poor go to food banks. Despite this he is a major player in control of making a success of the result. Nobody seems to care about the irony.

He himself moans more than any other public figure. He has recently been moaning about opposition to globalisation and free trade, when he has been a key perpetrator of one of the biggest movements against it! You couldn't make this stuff up.
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01-03-2017, 09:49 AM
5

Re: What I think of Brexit

Originally Posted by TessA ->
You've said everything I've been trying to say in my own clumsy way!
What is really annoying me is that Cameron used the referendum promise to get re-elected as he saw UKIP were becoming popular. He didn't think it would work, but it did, you could see on his face that he was shocked to win.
Then he gave us the vote with no plans in place for the outcome as he didn't think that leave would win either!
Then he sneaks off and leaves everyone to sort it out.
Boris and Nigel would have done the same if Boris hadn't been stopped by May and Nigel hadn't seen an opportunity to get in the limelight again.
I can't believe Cameron has got away with this. It was all about self-interest for him. I will never forgive him for what he did to the NHS, but as for Brexit he has got what he deserves because both those who voted remain and those who voted leave despise him now.
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01-03-2017, 05:18 PM
6

Re: What I think of Brexit

Originally Posted by Azz ->
Some fantastic points Annie - thanks for sharing!



Not on this forum I hope if you come across anyone making personal attacks please report the post and we'll look into it.
I was referring in the main to the press and social media. Particularly media "personalities" such as Katie hopkins among others.
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01-03-2017, 06:11 PM
7

Re: What I think of Brexit

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
I was referring in the main to the press and social media. Particularly media "personalities" such as Katie hopkins among others.
Ugh. I can't stand vile people like her. They belong in the gutter.
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11-03-2017, 04:09 PM
8

Re: What I think of Brexit

Aagh now I see why Azz deleted my comments.

We all seem to be on the same page. I agree totally. I did threads about it being a Muslim reason. People seem not to be able to distinguish ISIS, Muslim, Immigrant.

It's shocking to see such hatred.
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