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03-03-2017, 11:50 AM
1

A few concerns

Living amongst so many different nationalities we get to hear many different views on UK leaving the EU. I have to say, whether it's popular or not, that the majority think the UK is crazy, but that's another story. My concerns are mostly for the young people who will have to grow up without the EU. I often wonder if I would have had the same chances I had if the UK hadn't been in the EU, quite frankly I am certain I wouldn't. So a few thoughts from me.

............

I'm no political expert, but I do know that what politicians say and what politicians do are two very different things. As everyone has realised the “blurb” given out in the run up to the referendum was dishonest on both sides. The number of people who really thought they were voting to stop immigration, is amazing, we have heard it time and again. We have even come across people who thought, and still do think, that once out of the EU towns and cities will suddenly become all white areas again.

Then there are the ones who complain that the Polish take all the jobs. I find this rather odd because if the British were doing the jobs in the first place, the jobs wouldn't be there to take would they? One example: a friend of ours has a successful business, at present he employs 10 Polish workers, who have been with him for 7 years. It's hard, dirty work in a quarry, but when he advertised for workers, both in local papers and the employment centre, not one application did he have from local people. He pays his workers well, twice a year, summer holidays and Christmas he pays for his workers to visit their families in Poland.

Then we hear talk of “how things will be better for their children and grandchildren”, but they appear to forget that their children and grandchildren still have to live in the “here and now”, I doubt they want to wait until they themselves are grandparents to have a decent standard of living and opportunities, which unless they have affluent parents they won't be able to afford.

The majority of people in our age group have more or less grown up whilst in the EU. Many of us own our own homes, take expensive luxury holidays, many have expensive new cars. Whatever we have achieved most of us have achieved this whilst living within the EU. Now it appears that we expect our children and grandchildren to have to wait, maybe very many years, maybe never, to achieve such things. There will be no EU grants given out to those wanting to start their own business, no EU subsidies to farmers etc.

There is much talk of what can be done with the money currently paid into the EU, that's all it is, talk. That money will be simply swallowed up as if it never existed.

If visas and private health insurance are going to be needed to holiday in europe, then many families will not be able to afford so much extra cost and holidays in the UK are not exactly cheap either.

European arrest warrants: will they still apply when UK is no longer in the EU or will all the criminals who manage to evade the authorities in the UK and are arrested in other european countries and returned to the UK to face trial just be forgotten?

People who have been treated badly by their employers will no longer be able to appeal to the european courts of justice. No doubt this will apply to other legal matters too.

Of course many ex pats are concerned. The greater majority of them have worked to retirement age in the UK, paid their taxes and national insurance in the UK and are as entitled as anyone else (more entitled in some cases) to their pensions etc. They have after all paid for them.

We then hear “you shouldn't get anything, you abandoned UK”.........what total rubbish. When people have worked hard all their lives surely they should be entitled to spend their money as, when and where they wish. Do people still living in UK say you shouldn't be spending your money on foreign holidays? Of course not, you all spend your money as you wish, new house, new car, luxury cruise, whatever. Have you abandoned your country because you go abroad for your holidays, when you could of course be spending that money in the UK? People move abroad for many reasons, weather, health, work, better quality of life etc, surely they are entitled to. They don't come to claim benefits and free everything, they wouldn't get it if they did. You don't pay in, you don't get anything, certainly not foreign ex pats.

The impact Brexit will have on ex pats remains to be seen, but already many are scared. So much so that the doctors and hospital have very suddenly become extremely busy with British ex pats who are on waiting lists for operations or appointments with specialists all doing their best to “queue jump” just in case they have to return to UK where they know they'll be lucky to even get an appointment with a doctor. I know this because my doctor has told me that she is inundated with requests to push for specialist appointments and operation date requests. Also during my frequent visits to the hospital the past weeks it is very apparent just how much busier it is right now.

I'm quite sure there's a lot wrong with the EU, but then again there's a lot wrong everywhere. For the UK to “isolate” itself, is, as far as I am concerned, a disaster waiting to happen. Perhaps they will get rid of the Polish and other europeans, but the immigrants will still keep flocking in from outside europe and very few of them will be looking to work, they will however be looking for free everything. It's all very well to say you can secure your own borders, catch them and send them back, it simply won't happen.

Surely what should have happened, since so many countries are unhappy with the EU, if we can believe all we read, is shouldn't all these unhappy countries have got together to change things?

My sympathies, or worries if preferred, are for the young people and children who are going to have to grow up, find work and homes in the post Brexit years, because personally I don't think it's going to be the land of opportunity and plenty. Perhaps I'll be proved wrong, I hope so.
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03-03-2017, 06:21 PM
2

Re: A few concerns

Some great points Clumsy.

I agree that people were manipulated by a racist 'them and us' agenda. I've said it before and I'll say it again, such people have no place in the future of humanity - just the destruction of it.
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04-03-2017, 09:07 AM
3

Re: A few concerns

Good news, the house of Lords has said that the Government has no obligation to pay anything to the EU on leaving!
So much for them being interfering busy bodies!
That's made me feel a bit better, except it's up to the Government to decide if they want to pay anything and how much!
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05-03-2017, 10:16 AM
4

Re: A few concerns

Originally Posted by clumsy ->
Living amongst so many different nationalities we get to hear many different views on UK leaving the EU. I have to say, whether it's popular or not, that the majority think the UK is crazy, but that's another story. My concerns are mostly for the young people who will have to grow up without the EU. I often wonder if I would have had the same chances I had if the UK hadn't been in the EU, quite frankly I am certain I wouldn't. So a few thoughts from me.

............

I'm no political expert, but I do know that what politicians say and what politicians do are two very different things. As everyone has realised the “blurb” given out in the run up to the referendum was dishonest on both sides. The number of people who really thought they were voting to stop immigration, is amazing, we have heard it time and again. We have even come across people who thought, and still do think, that once out of the EU towns and cities will suddenly become all white areas again.

Then there are the ones who complain that the Polish take all the jobs. I find this rather odd because if the British were doing the jobs in the first place, the jobs wouldn't be there to take would they? One example: a friend of ours has a successful business, at present he employs 10 Polish workers, who have been with him for 7 years. It's hard, dirty work in a quarry, but when he advertised for workers, both in local papers and the employment centre, not one application did he have from local people. He pays his workers well, twice a year, summer holidays and Christmas he pays for his workers to visit their families in Poland.

Then we hear talk of “how things will be better for their children and grandchildren”, but they appear to forget that their children and grandchildren still have to live in the “here and now”, I doubt they want to wait until they themselves are grandparents to have a decent standard of living and opportunities, which unless they have affluent parents they won't be able to afford.

The majority of people in our age group have more or less grown up whilst in the EU. Many of us own our own homes, take expensive luxury holidays, many have expensive new cars. Whatever we have achieved most of us have achieved this whilst living within the EU. Now it appears that we expect our children and grandchildren to have to wait, maybe very many years, maybe never, to achieve such things. There will be no EU grants given out to those wanting to start their own business, no EU subsidies to farmers etc.

There is much talk of what can be done with the money currently paid into the EU, that's all it is, talk. That money will be simply swallowed up as if it never existed.

If visas and private health insurance are going to be needed to holiday in europe, then many families will not be able to afford so much extra cost and holidays in the UK are not exactly cheap either.

European arrest warrants: will they still apply when UK is no longer in the EU or will all the criminals who manage to evade the authorities in the UK and are arrested in other european countries and returned to the UK to face trial just be forgotten?

People who have been treated badly by their employers will no longer be able to appeal to the european courts of justice. No doubt this will apply to other legal matters too.

Of course many ex pats are concerned. The greater majority of them have worked to retirement age in the UK, paid their taxes and national insurance in the UK and are as entitled as anyone else (more entitled in some cases) to their pensions etc. They have after all paid for them.

We then hear “you shouldn't get anything, you abandoned UK”.........what total rubbish. When people have worked hard all their lives surely they should be entitled to spend their money as, when and where they wish. Do people still living in UK say you shouldn't be spending your money on foreign holidays? Of course not, you all spend your money as you wish, new house, new car, luxury cruise, whatever. Have you abandoned your country because you go abroad for your holidays, when you could of course be spending that money in the UK? People move abroad for many reasons, weather, health, work, better quality of life etc, surely they are entitled to. They don't come to claim benefits and free everything, they wouldn't get it if they did. You don't pay in, you don't get anything, certainly not foreign ex pats.

The impact Brexit will have on ex pats remains to be seen, but already many are scared. So much so that the doctors and hospital have very suddenly become extremely busy with British ex pats who are on waiting lists for operations or appointments with specialists all doing their best to “queue jump” just in case they have to return to UK where they know they'll be lucky to even get an appointment with a doctor. I know this because my doctor has told me that she is inundated with requests to push for specialist appointments and operation date requests. Also during my frequent visits to the hospital the past weeks it is very apparent just how much busier it is right now.

I'm quite sure there's a lot wrong with the EU, but then again there's a lot wrong everywhere. For the UK to “isolate” itself, is, as far as I am concerned, a disaster waiting to happen. Perhaps they will get rid of the Polish and other europeans, but the immigrants will still keep flocking in from outside europe and very few of them will be looking to work, they will however be looking for free everything. It's all very well to say you can secure your own borders, catch them and send them back, it simply won't happen.

Surely what should have happened, since so many countries are unhappy with the EU, if we can believe all we read, is shouldn't all these unhappy countries have got together to change things?

My sympathies, or worries if preferred, are for the young people and children who are going to have to grow up, find work and homes in the post Brexit years, because personally I don't think it's going to be the land of opportunity and plenty. Perhaps I'll be proved wrong, I hope so.
Clumsy I think I share your concerns, especially about workers rights and the young, it all depends on what deals we can negotiate with the EU, things are relitivly stable now, but I feel lots of companies will transfer their business abroad, as some of the financial institutions are already started, plus once out who or what type of deals will we see, will it be a case of any country who offers us trade deals will do no matter what?
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05-03-2017, 10:52 AM
5

Re: A few concerns

Thank you for the reply Primus. I think you could well be right about companies transferring their businesses abroad. We already know of one who was in the process of organising a new business, which he originally intended opening in England, (he is Finnish), but has now decided it would not be a good idea and is currently in negotiations to open it here in Spain. The new intended business will be an "off shoot" of his current very successful business in Finland.

The other concern of course, re any trade deals after brexit, is that whichever country the UK is hoping to make a deal with will of course have the upper hand, sort of "take it or leave it". I imagine that could be a worry.

I also think there could be big concerns for many people re rising costs and job losses, plus of course it will not be so easy to take up other employment within Europe if things go back to work permits etc etc.

It has nothing to do with being called "doom and gloom" merchants, it´s more to do with thinking about what the realities possibly are, or will be, and realising the world is a very different place indeed to that of years ago.
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05-03-2017, 11:13 AM
6

Re: A few concerns

Originally Posted by clumsy ->


The impact Brexit will have on ex pats remains to be seen, but already many are scared. So much so that the doctors and hospital have very suddenly become extremely busy with British ex pats who are on waiting lists for operations or appointments with specialists all doing their best to “queue jump” just in case they have to return to UK where they know they'll be lucky to even get an appointment with a doctor. I know this because my doctor has told me that she is inundated with requests to push for specialist appointments and operation date requests. Also during my frequent visits to the hospital the past weeks it is very apparent just how much busier it is right now.

In terms of healthcare, it should be as simple after Brexit as it should be now. We have reciprocal agreements with many countries outside the EU. So if you go to say Australia you shouldn't have to pay for hospital treatment.

The arrangements are pretty straightforward - we recharge that country for treatment of our nationals and they recharge us. It's just our systems here don't work like they should, but that's entirely our fault and not the fault of foreigners coming here. It's also our fault that we give everything in our reciprocal agreements, whereas in most countries some services are not free as part of the deal.

In theory there will be reciprocal agreements made with all EU nations to replace the E111 agreement. It would be ridiculous if this was not agreed. But there may be confusion of the status during the period of brexit negotiations. The Government must give some clarity and stop treating the process as some game.
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11-03-2017, 03:56 PM
7

Re: A few concerns

We have the new convenio especial until,we reach our natural state pension age. We pay 60 euro a month to access the public health care.

Clumsy I agree with your comments. We find rule of thumb other Europeans are not bothered . My one concern is our grandchildren too young to vote and suffer the consequences .
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11-03-2017, 03:59 PM
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Re: A few concerns

Originally Posted by Azz ->
Some great points Clumsy.

I agree that people were manipulated by a racist 'them and us' agenda. I've said it before and I'll say it again, such people have no place in the future of humanity - just the destruction of it.
Can I ask then why you allow some comments to go uncensored. By that I mean the term them or the such. People are human beings not them
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clumsy
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11-03-2017, 06:33 PM
9

Re: A few concerns

Originally Posted by Goldielocks ->
We have the new convenio especial until,we reach our natural state pension age. We pay 60 euro a month to access the public health care.

Clumsy I agree with your comments. We find rule of thumb other Europeans are not bothered . My one concern is our grandchildren too young to vote and suffer the consequences .
That is my concern too Goldielocks, well one of them at least.
We older ones have grown up with the EU, many of us own our own homes, we've had our careers, we own cars, we go on expensive holidays, many of us no longer have a mortgage round our necks.

When on European holidays we've been supplied with the EHIC card, which has meant we could use doctors and hospitals for emergencies without having to pay the huge fees of private doctors and hospitals, or buy expensive medical insurance for everyone in the family. The EHIC card of course covers pre existing illness, which means that they can also get their prescriptions either free or greatly reduced.
Visas will also be a big additional cost, plus for those wanting to work abroad there will be the added hassle and red tape of work permits.

All these benefits, as no doubt are other benefits, going to be lost. Of course it won't greatly affect those of us who no longer have to work to live and bring up families, and have enough money saved to buy our cars and go on our holidays, but it's most certainly going to affect those who are not retired and will not be able to afford such luxuries in the future.

I think voting out of the EU, even with it's faults, has done the younger generation a huge blow to their futures.



Friends in England tell us that now the reality is kicking in and the rose coloured spectacles are fading that many people are regretting voting out.
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11-03-2017, 07:06 PM
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Re: A few concerns

Originally Posted by Goldielocks ->
Can I ask then why you allow some comments to go uncensored. By that I mean the term them or the such. People are human beings not them
You can't attack our members by posting threads in these sections about them, that's why a moderator removed your thread.

You can however talk about the general population or voting population - which is what the rest of us are doing.
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