10-04-2020, 02:28 PM
101
Re: Italy
Originally Posted by Bread
->
We aren't in the EU or the Eurozone .... why would we want to vote ? We don't care ...You might want to check which countries are the biggest contributors to the ESM. Don't you think Italy as the 3rd biggest nett contributor is getting its own money loaned back to it ? Its no wonder Italians are burning your EU flag and tearing it out of town halls.
Solidarity eh ?
"Only" 80 bn of the 700 bn is payed in cash into the ESM by members. For italy that means 17% of 80, equals less than 14 bn.
The rest is loaned through the issuance of some special ESM obligations at the capital markets.
The present loan is € 500 bn. Should italy get 17% of that, and loan approx. 85 bn, then only 14 bn could be considered to be their 'own' money. Then 71 bn (85 - 14) of that amount still would be guaranteed by all 27 members, and if italy fails from lacksity to pay back what they owe, the other 26 will have to deliver. Reputation of italy being what it is......
10-04-2020, 03:33 PM
102
Re: Italy
Originally Posted by Solasch
->
Going by your posts, you most certainly care, but you might be the exception on the other britons."Only" 80 bn of the 700 bn is payed in cash into the ESM by members. For italy that means 17% of 80, equals less than 14 bn.
The rest is loaned through the issuance of some special ESM obligations at the capital markets.
The present loan is € 500 bn. Should italy get 17% of that, and loan approx. 85 bn, then only 14 bn could be considered to be their 'own' money. Then 71 bn (85 - 14) of that amount still would be guaranteed by all 27 members, and if italy fails from lacksity to pay back what they owe, the other 26 will have to deliver. Reputation of italy being what it is......
Being a caring socialist, it's nice of you to hold your EU neighbour, Italy in such high regard. I take it that you agree with me then that solidarity in the EU is no more, seeing that Netherlands and Germany refused to mutualise (or socialise) debt ... goes without saying really.
While we are on the subject of maths (lord knows what you are on about above, but I would expect you're using your crack-pot calculator again), here is some more.
Population of the Eurozone = 350 million
Population of the USA = 325 million
USA crisis funding = $2.2 Trillion
Eurozone crisis funding = €500 Billion
How does that work then Solasch when the USA economy is far bigger, better and more successful than the (border-line recession), declining economy of the Eurozone, complete with its unemployment and 12 years of continuous quantitive easing since 2008 ?
Do you think Coronabonds are off the table when the maximum lending capability of the ESM is (coincidentally), €500 Billion ?
Oh dear .... seems to be a bit of a shortfall .... here comes coronabonds
10-04-2020, 11:09 PM
103
Re: Italy
Originally Posted by Bread
->
Make no mistake, I couldn't give a fig about the Eurozone or the EU, I just like to point out its failures, hypocrisy and lies, the typical ingredients of socialism and communism Being a caring socialist, it's nice of you to hold your EU neighbour, Italy in such high regard. I take it that you agree with me then that solidarity in the EU is no more, seeing that Netherlands and Germany refused to mutualise (or socialise) debt ... goes without saying really.
While we are on the subject of maths (lord knows what you are on about above, but I would expect you're using your crack-pot calculator again), here is some more.
Population of the Eurozone = 350 million
Population of the USA = 325 million
USA crisis funding = $2.2 Trillion
Eurozone crisis funding = €500 Billion
How does that work then Solasch when the USA economy is far bigger, better and more successful than the (border-line recession), declining economy of the Eurozone, complete with its unemployment and 12 years of continuous quantitive easing since 2008 ?
Do you think Coronabonds are off the table when the maximum lending capability of the ESM is (coincidentally), €500 Billion ?
Oh dear .... seems to be a bit of a shortfall .... here comes coronabonds
You can find those numbers here. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro...#Contributions
I wonder if you put the UK alongside the numbers of eurozone and usa, how would that compare?
Just try it, if you dare.....
11-04-2020, 09:04 AM
104
Re: Italy
Originally Posted by Solasch
->
You can find those numbers here. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro...#ContributionsI wonder if you put the UK alongside the numbers of eurozone and usa, how would that compare?
Just try it, if you dare.....
We don't have the Euro ... what are you on about ?
12-04-2020, 09:51 AM
106
Re: Italy
Originally Posted by Solasch
->
You compare the EU with the usa. We don't have the dollar....what are you on about?
Keep up.
12-04-2020, 01:23 PM
107
Re: Italy
Originally Posted by Bread
->
Coronabonds aka eurobonds are an issue for the eurozone. It was you that compared it to the UK and i pointed out we are not in the Eurozone or have the Euro.Keep up.
12-04-2020, 02:15 PM
108
Re: Italy
Originally Posted by Solasch
->
You compared (in post # 102) crisis funding by usa and EU. I dared you to compare those to the crisis funding by the UK. Am I to understand from your evading to answer, that there is no crisis funding by the UK?
I compared populations, the economies and the amount of crisis funding, highlighting the differences between the USA and the Eurozone. I then pointed out that the ESM can only loan a maximum of €500 billion to outline why it supports my argument that you will end up with mutualised debt to cover the shortfall.
The USA and the Eurozone have similar populations but the USA funding is 4 times that of the Eurozone, which has its economies in decline, unemployment still at high levels and recession just around the corner for Germany, its biggest net contributor.
The big difference is the USA has its own centralised treasury and central bank, - the eurozone does not so at some point it will need to mutualise its debt to bail itself out.
The UK is not in the eurozone so it does not need to issue eurobonds, neither does anywhere else in the planet eurobonds are mutualised debt ....
That's the 3rd time I've had to explain this and the hypocrisy of those countries in the Eurozone that oppose it .... the Netherlands Germany and Austria - so much for socialism, its only popular when things are going well
12-04-2020, 03:42 PM
109
Re: Italy
Originally Posted by Bread
->
so much for socialism, its only popular when things are going well
If I remember correctly in december labour had a landslide loss in elections. Things must be bad in the UK by your definition.
12-04-2020, 05:04 PM
110
Re: Italy
Originally Posted by Solasch
->
So you don't have crisis funding.If I remember correctly in december labour had a landslide loss in elections. Things must be bad in the UK by your definition.
Yes we do have crisis funding but we also have our own central bank and central treasury. You don't and that's the problem but it doesn't matter how many times I explain this you still refuse to acknowledge how your own socialist eurozone works.
|
|
