14-09-2020, 03:32 PM
41
Re: UK Legal Position on the Northern Ireland Protocol
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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I thought the way it worked is that the EU has treaties with all member states and agrees every piece of legislation via that arrangement and their representatives at the European Parliament. They ratified the withdrawal agreement back in Feb. So based on that we are breaking international law. We appear to have signed something without reading it properly.
14-09-2020, 03:51 PM
42
Re: UK Legal Position on the Northern Ireland Protocol
Originally Posted by Percy Vere
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The Vienna Convention On The Law Of Treaties is NOT a piece of EU law, it's International.
So in dealing with one country you are dealing with them all via the network of treaties.
We will have broken international law if the bill goes through. There's no loophole.
14-09-2020, 04:06 PM
44
Re: UK Legal Position on the Northern Ireland Protocol
Originally Posted by Percy Vere
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you're missing the point Annie. This Convention has to be ratified by 39 states before it becomes law. As the EU is made up of only 27 states, how can it be an International law already?
14-09-2020, 04:09 PM
45
Re: UK Legal Position on the Northern Ireland Protocol
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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Are you saying that the The Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties was not fully ratified and is therefore not valid?
14-09-2020, 05:07 PM
46
Re: UK Legal Position on the Northern Ireland Protocol
Tirade for the day!!I still find it hard to understand the reasoning behind Conservative MP’s planning to rebel against Boris’s Internal Market Amendment?? Are they collaborating with a foreign entity?
If so, should they not resign from the party? I thought each Tory MP had to sign an undertaking before they stood for election, that they would back Brexit? Is this what they call backing Brexit? I sincerely hope that numpty envoy for ‘’freedom of religion Minister, Chishti, (anagram for last four letters of his name) that has resigned today, is going to call an immediate by-election, or is it a case of ‘’I Resign in Protest but don’t want to lose my salary for 4 years’’ hypocrite!
Now this is only what I have read today, but it seems it is indeed the EU who have been contravening UN Resolution 3281 Article 32 which states:
‘’No State may use or encourage the use of economic political or any other type of measures to coerce another State in order to obtain from it the subordination of the exercise of its sovereign right’’
Now Solly, before you jump on the above, we all know the EU is not, nor is ever likely to be, a State! But… it certainly believes and acts as though it is, (it is in a state) .
Barnier is of course denying threatening to annex NI by suggesting they had yet to make up; their minds whether to treat us as a third country with regard to certain foodstuffs. Something they have never done with any other single trading country.
Surely they must have taken minutes of the meeting? Why don’t they play it behind closed doors to all those doubting Thomases wittering on about the reputation and integrity of the UK. Pathetic creatures, the only thing that worries that lot is a fractured relationship with the EU post-Brexit - risking their own EU swollen bank accounts.
Also, I am now reading that Brandon Lewis (Remain supporter of course) announcing that the UK was breaking International Law, was totally unprofessional, when it has been announced today that it is not in fact breaking the law. The sooner he is shuffled off to the back benches the better. Anyone who objects to the Gov’t doing its best to protect England, Scotland and Wales being able to carry on normal trade post-Brexit with the remaining one part of our Union - N.I.certainly do not deserve to be in Parliament representing the people. Common sense shows that they would and should support the Government trying to ensure the protection of the United Kingdom trading tariff free with NI, and more importantly, ensuring that this plot by the EU to blackmail us into giving red line concessions to them, never happens.
Remain (and turncoat Brexit) MPs who are opposing the Government in their endeavours - are beneath contempt. To use ‘’the UKs reputation and integrity’’ as their poor excuse to try and hinder Brexit once again, shows them up for what they are…..COCKROACHES!
Ed Miliband is speaking in the house. Someone pass the sick bucket please!
Tirade over. Time for a cuppa.
14-09-2020, 05:53 PM
47
Re: UK Legal Position on the Northern Ireland Protocol
Originally Posted by Percy Vere
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I've been reading a lot around the legal ins and outs of this proposed Bill and, after some little while have come to the following conclusions:The UK is not breaking international law. The Vienna convention that all and sundry are saying covers treaties between states and countries rules on this point. The EU is neither a state as recognised by the United Nations nor is it an international organization.
The Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties between States and International Organizations or between International Organizations is an extension of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties which deals with treaties between States. It was developed by the International Law Commission and opened for signature on 21 March 1986.
Article 85 of the Convention states that this extension will enter into force once ratified by 35 States (international organizations may ratify, but their ratification does not count towards the number required for entry into force). As of February 2019, the treaty has been ratified by 32 states and 12 international organizations. As a result, the Convention is not yet in force.
As this extension is not in force, all attempts to take Boris to the ECJ or whatever is doomed to failure because the UK IS NOT breaking International law.
In addition to the above, and I'm sure Solly will totally disagree with me here, the Withdrawal Act has clause 38 allowing GB to deviate from the treaty if necessary. What the EU proposes for Norn Iron is in breach of the Good Friday Agreement. Canada, Australia and New Zealand have similar laws to alter treaties, because their Parliaments are sovereign.
has been legal ??
Lets hope so !!
Donkeyman! 🤔🤔🤔
14-09-2020, 07:01 PM
49
Re: UK Legal Position on the Northern Ireland Protocol
Originally Posted by Donkeyman
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Does that mean that Boris CANT over rule the lords SG ???Donkeyman! 👎😟👎
Thank you Bread for answering the question.
14-09-2020, 07:10 PM
50
Re: UK Legal Position on the Northern Ireland Protocol
Originally Posted by Percy Vere
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I've been reading a lot around the legal ins and outs of this proposed Bill and, after some little while have come to the following conclusions:The UK is not breaking international law. The Vienna convention that all and sundry are saying covers treaties between states and countries rules on this point. The EU is neither a state as recognised by the United Nations nor is it an international organization.
The Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties between States and International Organizations or between International Organizations is an extension of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties which deals with treaties between States. It was developed by the International Law Commission and opened for signature on 21 March 1986.
Article 85 of the Convention states that this extension will enter into force once ratified by 35 States (international organizations may ratify, but their ratification does not count towards the number required for entry into force). As of February 2019, the treaty has been ratified by 32 states and 12 international organizations. As a result, the Convention is not yet in force.
As this extension is not in force, all attempts to take Boris to the ECJ or whatever is doomed to failure because the UK IS NOT breaking International law.
In addition to the above, and I'm sure Solly will totally disagree with me here, the Withdrawal Act has clause 38 allowing GB to deviate from the treaty if necessary. What the EU proposes for Norn Iron is in breach of the Good Friday Agreement. Canada, Australia and New Zealand have similar laws to alter treaties, because their Parliaments are sovereign.
Thanks for the very interesting facts above Percy. I certainly didn't know of some of these so really appreciate it.
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