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04-01-2019, 01:26 PM
1

Sajid Javid - Saviour or Self-Serving?

It would be interesting to know what other posters views are with regard to Sajid Javid?

I donít know about anyone else, but I honestly donít know whether to heap Sajid Javid with the praise he deserves for questioning whether the mainly Iranian single men coming over to UK shores from France purporting to be genuine asylum seekers, or simply as a pretentious, self-serving prat who sees himself as the man to step into Theresa Mayís shoes at the end of her term, so comes out with soundbites that would make the likes of Tony Blair and Gorden Brown very proud. After all, they were masters at speaking with forked tongues!

Now I donít profess to know a great deal about him. Iíve read that he was very anti-EU whilst at University, but when in Cameronís government, voted to Remain! (probably under pressure from Cameron himself) But is now backing Brexit.
Hmm, ( very suspicious that he is following his own career agenda rather than genuine concerns over our already overcrowded little island?)

To begin with, things didnít go too well for him when it was disclosed that he was taking charge of the boat fiasco, but then discovered that he was in fact 7000 miles away, sunning himself on a beach while claiming to be taking the lead over this!

However, after damage limitation tactics, kudoís to him for returning early after that bad publicity, and starting off by stating that it must be questioned why these boat people have any right to claim asylum in the UK at all when they are coming over from another ďsafeĒ country - France, where they should have applied for asylum as the first safe country and there were plans in the pipeline to have them returned to France. (havenít we been here before?)

I then read the very next day it wasnít a case of them actually being returned to France but about him hoping for future discussions with his French counterpart regarding the likelihood of the Channel boat people being returned to France? Excellent soundbite, good for his career, but again, all words and absolutely no action.

Javid, as Home Secretary, also asked the Ministry of Defence to provide a Naval Vessel to patrol the Channel whilst two of the Border Patrol cutters are stuck in Greek ports. More good headlines. Now there is an almighty row between himself and Gavin Williamson of the MOD, over whose department will be responsible to pay the £20,000 per day it is costing to use the Royal Navy vessel. Ho Hum!

I am yet to be convinced that Sajid Javid is genuine or just another useless, self-serving, two-faced political imbecile?
I seem to have become such a cynic when it comes to politicians ever being trusted again!

What do you think? Do you believe he is genuine, or yet another politician speaking with a forked tongue?
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Julie1962
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04-01-2019, 01:37 PM
2

Re: Sajid Javid - Saviour or Self-Serving?

I don't think it has to be one or the other really, perhaps he is self serving but just happened to say what others have been saying for a while. The two things came together for him.
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Uncle Joe
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04-01-2019, 01:59 PM
3

Re: Sajid Javid - Saviour or Self-Serving?

Originally Posted by shropshiregirl ->
It would be interesting to know what other posters views are with regard to Sajid Javid?

I donít know about anyone else, but I honestly donít know whether to heap Sajid Javid with the praise he deserves for questioning whether the mainly Iranian single men coming over to UK shores from France purporting to be genuine asylum seekers, or simply as a pretentious, self-serving prat who sees himself as the man to step into Theresa Mayís shoes at the end of her term, so comes out with soundbites that would make the likes of Tony Blair and Gorden Brown very proud. After all, they were masters at speaking with forked tongues!

Now I donít profess to know a great deal about him. Iíve read that he was very anti-EU whilst at University, but when in Cameronís government, voted to Remain! (probably under pressure from Cameron himself) But is now backing Brexit.
Hmm, ( very suspicious that he is following his own career agenda rather than genuine concerns over our already overcrowded little island?)

To begin with, things didnít go too well for him when it was disclosed that he was taking charge of the boat fiasco, but then discovered that he was in fact 7000 miles away, sunning himself on a beach while claiming to be taking the lead over this!

However, after damage limitation tactics, kudoís to him for returning early after that bad publicity, and starting off by stating that it must be questioned why these boat people have any right to claim asylum in the UK at all when they are coming over from another ďsafeĒ country - France, where they should have applied for asylum as the first safe country and there were plans in the pipeline to have them returned to France. (havenít we been here before?)

I then read the very next day it wasnít a case of them actually being returned to France but about him hoping for future discussions with his French counterpart regarding the likelihood of the Channel boat people being returned to France? Excellent soundbite, good for his career, but again, all words and absolutely no action.

Javid, as Home Secretary, also asked the Ministry of Defence to provide a Naval Vessel to patrol the Channel whilst two of the Border Patrol cutters are stuck in Greek ports. More good headlines. Now there is an almighty row between himself and Gavin Williamson of the MOD, over whose department will be responsible to pay the £20,000 per day it is costing to use the Royal Navy vessel. Ho Hum!

I am yet to be convinced that Sajid Javid is genuine or just another useless, self-serving, two-faced political imbecile?
I seem to have become such a cynic when it comes to politicians ever being trusted again!

What do you think? Do you believe he is genuine, or yet another politician speaking with a forked tongue?

He's a member of the scumbag 'nasty party' Government - 'nuff said ???
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04-01-2019, 02:01 PM
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Re: Sajid Javid - Saviour or Self-Serving?

So far in my 55 (almost 56) years, almost all politicians have been pillocks so I don't see why he would be any different. The trouble with all politicians is they can say whatever they like but no one ever holds them to account. My first question would have to be why our Home Secretary is the son of a Pakistani bus driver, was he put there to make up the ethnic numbers? Javid has been Home Sec for 8 months now so he has had plenty of time to sort this problem, as did Rudd before him and every other Home Sec of the past.
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04-01-2019, 02:13 PM
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Re: Sajid Javid - Saviour or Self-Serving?

Originally Posted by Julie1962 ->
I don't think it has to be one or the other really, perhaps he is self serving but just happened to say what others have been saying for a while. The two things came together for him.
At least the fact that he wants to discus with his french counterpart the possibility to return the Iranians, shows he is preparing for brexit.
There is no legal basis to return them to france, if they don't want them there. They ask for asylum in the UK (which is only logical: if you have to chose between asylum in france, belgium, UK, what would you chose? UK heaven), you have to treat them as such based on international (sea) law.
Countries in the schengen have an agreement, saying that the country of entry should offer asylum or shelter. Other countries within the schengen regio can return immigrants to the country of entry.
As the UK has opted out of schengen this does not apply to the iranians recently picked up out of sea. Sending them back to france is not an option, no schengen. Asking asylum elsewhere, not the UK's business. The UK has to find out if they are really in need of asylum, or have them returned to Iran.

If Sajid Javid is telling this, he tells the truth. All else is misinformation delivered by him for a selfserving purpose.
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04-01-2019, 02:16 PM
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Re: Sajid Javid - Saviour or Self-Serving?

Why is there no legal basis ? they should be returned to France and France can return them where they came from. Should have done that before allowing them to come here.
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Solasch
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04-01-2019, 02:36 PM
7

Re: Sajid Javid - Saviour or Self-Serving?

Originally Posted by Julie1962 ->
Why is there no legal basis ? they should be returned to France and France can return them where they came from. Should have done that before allowing them to come here.
International law says you cannot bring people to another nation if they don't want to. That law was instituted after the nazi's made a habit from it.
These people chose to leave france. Suppose they came directly from iran. You don't want them. Would you sent them back to iran?
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Solasch
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04-01-2019, 02:40 PM
8

Re: Sajid Javid - Saviour or Self-Serving?

Originally Posted by Julie1962 ->
Why is there no legal basis ? they should be returned to France and France can return them where they came from. Should have done that before allowing them to come here.
Within the schengen regio there is a legal basis, that is the essence of the schengen agreement. The UK chose to opt out.
So now the iranians are in the UK you have only two choices. Give asylum (they become legal imigrants) or you deny that (e.g. you consider uran safe for them). In the latter case you put them on a plane to iran.
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04-01-2019, 02:48 PM
9

Re: Sajid Javid - Saviour or Self-Serving?

Originally Posted by Solasch ->
At least the fact that he wants to discus with his french counterpart the possibility to return the Iranians, shows he is preparing for brexit.
There is no legal basis to return them to france, if they don't want them there. They ask for asylum in the UK (which is only logical: if you have to chose between asylum in france, belgium, UK, what would you chose? UK heaven), you have to treat them as such based on international (sea) law.
Countries in the schengen have an agreement, saying that the country of entry should offer asylum or shelter. Other countries within the schengen regio can return immigrants to the country of entry.
As the UK has opted out of schengen this does not apply to the iranians recently picked up out of sea. Sending them back to france is not an option, no schengen. Asking asylum elsewhere, not the UK's business. The UK has to find out if they are really in need of asylum, or have them returned to Iran.

If Sajid Javid is telling this, he tells the truth. All else is misinformation delivered by him for a selfserving purpose.

Total bullsh*t!!! - Political asylum and the consequent 'refugees' has nothing whatsoever to do with the Schengen agreement but arose out of the 1948 convention. Thus, if Javid wants to deport them back to France from whence they came, there is nothing to legally debar him from doing so !!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_asylum
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Solasch
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04-01-2019, 02:54 PM
10

Re: Sajid Javid - Saviour or Self-Serving?

Originally Posted by Julie1962 ->
Should have done that before allowing them to come here.
International maritime law says that ships have to rescue shipwreckeds floating around in smal boats. They have to be brought to port of ship. British ships can only bring them to british harbours. You can't keep them aboard indefinitely you know. They may need medical attention.
Once on british soil, the ask for asylum.

After brexit you will get scenes like those in the mediterranean. Open boats packed with refugees. Naval and merchant vessels at the rescue. Loads of people in refugee camps on the british coasts.
Countries like france, belgium, holland, denmark and Ireland have no reason to stop people, illegally staying in the EU, from taking a boat to the UK. A third party country.
No EU member, no schengen agreement, no possibility to return refugees. But I have no doubt the british premier will call something that translates to: wir schaffen das!
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