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07-06-2019, 01:54 PM
21

Re: This house believes

Originally Posted by Lion Queen ->
It has always puzzled me why things are put on this earth to only be eaten by something else, just doesn't make any sense to me.

If a creature evolved that ate humans, omg can you imagine. Saying that though, there are cannibals here already!
They weren't put on the earth so another species could eat them, but every creature needs food so we evolved to eat what we could catch, find or grow.
The reason most creatures reproduce so many is because they want their species to survive.... and the stronger ones will !

Sadly humans found ways to avoid being killed by stronger animals, yet continued to reproduce at the same rate. That is why there are too many of us and they are now looking to produce greater numbers of insects to provide the protein we will need!
There are too many of us and, if we can't produce sufficient food in the future, humans could eventually become extinct!
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Donkeyman
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07-06-2019, 02:01 PM
22

Re: This house believes

At my big fat greek wedding in my wifes village in Greece
they slaughtered a sheep ( they called it a lamb ) they had
been fattening up specially for the wedding feast!
And l remember how calm this animal was before and
during the process!! The guy doing the slaughter took time
to stroke and talk to the beast untill he got it to lay down!
Then he held its nose and knelt on its forelegs, then felt
its throat to locate the artery, and using a sharp short blade,
he cut the artery, the animal never once showed any
awareness of what was happening, and seemed to just
slowly go to sleep! The blood which spurted out was
allowed to soak into the dust!
I saw nothing wrong with this at all?
I have never been in a slaughterhouse and so cant compare
what goes on there!

Regards Donkeyman!
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07-06-2019, 02:07 PM
23

Re: This house believes

Originally Posted by The Artful Todger ->
Shackling and hoisting of beasts was insisted on --- in the USA in order to prevent the beast falling into blood.

Here a beast to be slaughterer for the kosher market must not be subjected to pain or distress and certainly not inverted.

Fact.

The dispatch of a beast by the shochet, a very highly trained slaughter man is strictly defined and very carefully conducted to ensure that the beast experiences the very least distress or discomfort and the time from start of cut to unconsciousness is a matter of seconds and because of the razor sharpness of the knife less than the feeling of pain to kick in.

Anyone who has experienced a cut from a very sharp blade knows that it usually takes a few seconds for the sensation to hit home after the cut.

Halal killing, that's a whole different matter. As long as there's an Inman or somewhere present any Tom Dick or Abdul can do the deed. There's not the same care taken over the blade nor how long the blade is. Unlike kosher slaughtering several cuts can be made to hack through the poor beasts neck. The very worst slaughtering that I EVER saw was the killing of sheep la halal. Horrific doesn't even begin to describe it.
Hi

Absolute rubbish.

I have seen so called Jewish Experts drunk in the slaughter pen.

They were smoking cigars at the time, another offence under UK Law.

Every attempt at prosecution was blocked.

This was at Leeds Slaughterhouse.

It was so rampant that the slaughter men, not exactly known for being PC Correct, used to hurl a knife, which had been used on pigs, across the slaughterhouse floor to render the carcase non kosher.

How many of you know that only the forequarter of a Kosher killed animal, one that has had it's throat cut whilst terrified, is actually Kosher?

Steaks, Topside , Silverside and rump is Non Kosher and put on sale without any markings.

You are eating brutally slaughtered animals, with no labelling required at all.

So

A simple question. You are going to have your throat cut.

Would you rather have it done when you where unconscious and did not know it was happening, or would you rather be forced upside down, in terror and feel the knife slitting your throat.

That is what Artful Todger is defending.
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07-06-2019, 03:28 PM
24

Re: This house believes

Originally Posted by Twink55 ->
I have no objection to killing for food, and if we were all vegan those animals would never have been born.

My cats will kill mice they catch, but if those mice hadn't been caught eventually we would be overrun with them or they would die of starvation.

It is all about nature & survival of the fittest, so maybe the fish that get caught are not the fittest.

If a creature evolved that ate humans, maybe we would not be having worries about feeding ourselves, because there would be less of us & the weakest will have been eaten.

We can all have opinions on who should die & who shouldn't, but isn't it just life?
The thing is, humans have the choice of how they kill the animals and fish they want to eat; other animals don't.

If people want to eat flesh, that's their choice, but then the animals should not be made to suffer as a result.

Unfortunately, high animal welfare and ethical slaughter is usually more expensive, and people want cheap food.

Imo , that's reason enough for people to be made aware of exactly what goes on. Do they want cheap food at the expense of a good life and a kind, painfree death for the animal or fish?
Or are they willing for animals to suffer so they can have cheap meat and fish?

Buying food has become much too sanitised, I think.
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07-06-2019, 03:38 PM
25

Re: This house believes

I detest people who kill animals for sport.


I wonder how they would feel,if we put them on the end of a fishing line,

In shark infested waters!.
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07-06-2019, 03:49 PM
26

Re: This house believes

Originally Posted by The Artful Todger ->
That is simply not so.

It is a commonly held belief that halal slaughter is the same as slaughtering in a way that meets the very strict requirements for meat (or fowl) to be kosher, and while both involves exsanguination the way that this is done is as different as chalk and cheese.

Believe it or not pre-stunning of beasts frequently results in a horrible period of utter confusion and panic for the beast until it used to be either rendered unconscious by means of a 'pithing' device or now by being bled.

I could go into quite a bit of detail about this having spent one summer vacation working in an abattoir in the gut room (yeugh!) Where I witnessed halal slaughtering, shechita (kosher) slaughtering, and ordinary slaughtering --- but I won't unless pressed.
And I knew a hard bitten Australian slaughter man who was totally disgusted by Halal slaughter .

If you want to know the truth about Halal slaughter just go on YouTube .

Loads of undercover workers have documented the cruelty of slaughter without prestunning .

However you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know it's cruel .

AD Why have you become such a wind up merchant ?
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The Artful Todger
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07-06-2019, 03:56 PM
27

Re: This house believes

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->
Hi

Absolute rubbish.

I have seen so called Jewish Experts drunk in the slaughter pen.

They were smoking cigars at the time, another offence under UK Law.

Every attempt at prosecution was blocked.

This was at Leeds Slaughterhouse.

It was so rampant that the slaughter men, not exactly known for being PC Correct, used to hurl a knife, which had been used on pigs, across the slaughterhouse floor to render the carcase non kosher.

How many of you know that only the forequarter of a Kosher killed animal, one that has had it's throat cut whilst terrified, is actually Kosher?

Steaks, Topside , Silverside and rump is Non Kosher and put on sale without any markings.

You are eating brutally slaughtered animals, with no labelling required at all.

So

A simple question. You are going to have your throat cut.

Would you rather have it done when you where unconscious and did not know it was happening, or would you rather be forced upside down, in terror and feel the knife slitting your throat.

That is what Artful Todger is defending.
Slaughtering for the kosher market does NOT involve inverting a beast in the UK. Moreover beasts slaughtered by a Shochet MUST be treated very carefully if the meat is not to be declared to be treif*.

Given he cost of a beast intended or the kosher market be last thing that is wanted is for it to be unacceptable!

Now the chalif the knife used. To start with it ain't no plain old chiv.

It's specially made from finest steel that is laminated in a steel matrix in a similar way to a Japanese katana or samurai sword. A razor sharp edge so sharp that it could be used to shave with.

It has to be. The edge must be free from any blemish in order to ensure a clean slice through the vital structures so that there is an instantaneous drop in blood pressure that results in immediate loss of consciousness.

The blade edge must be inspected prior to each use and is tested by sliding a finger nail down the edge to ensure there is no blemish. If there were to be a blemish the beast would be declared treif*.

One aspect about the preparation of meat for the kosher market that is not often realised is that although the despatching of the beast must follow the letter and the spirit of the laws of kashrut the subsequent butchering of the beast can be undertaken by even Goyim if trained as to how the carcass should be further prepared.

Since to a Goy the importance of kashrut is of less importance than to a Frummer Yiddle it's entirely possible that sometimes they will be less diligent!

Then there is the matter of pre-stunning. For jewish people it's in order to ensure that a rapid, stress free, pain free, and more instantaneous slaughter that pre-stunning is not undertaken.

The religious prohibition could easily be got around by combining a stunning device and a chalif but the insult to the brain of the beast would kick in first.

(Wanna buy a Chalif? Don't expect to pay less than a grand for a decent example!)

Not an excuse, there's enough flavours of Judaism to cope with pre-stunning if it was just a matter of orthodoxy but it isn't.

Let's keep in mind the events at the Masada and the method decided upon to die rather than fall into slavery to the Romans at best.

Now halal. The only similarity with Shechita and Zabiha is exsanguination. There all similarities end and brutality kicks in.

* Treif means torn. The word derives from treifah which means having been attacked or otherwise injured.

Me?

Pass the Parmesan Reggiano
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The Artful Todger
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07-06-2019, 04:01 PM
28

Re: This house believes

Originally Posted by Muddy ->

AD Why have you become such a wind up merchant ?
I really wasn't aware that I had. I enjoy intelligent debate and opening up contentious issues but only because I believe some things are worth chewing over but wind up?

You genuinely surprised me.
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07-06-2019, 04:06 PM
29

Re: This house believes

Quote: frummer yiddle Unquote



I love it!
After googling, I now know that frum means pious, and Yiddle or Yidl, presumably means a Jewish person.

However, given that the short version of Yiddle has been used in offensive speech, could you tell me if it's ok for a Goy to use the term Yiddle to refer to a Jewish person? Not in an offensive way, I mean. (Genuine enquiry, as I'm interested in language usage).
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07-06-2019, 04:36 PM
30

Re: This house believes

Originally Posted by Pyxell ->
Quote: frummer yiddle Unquote



I love it!
After googling, I now know that frum means pious, and Yiddle or Yidl, presumably means a Jewish person.

However, given that the short version of Yiddle has been used in offensive speech, could you tell me if it's ok for a Goy to use the term Yiddle to refer to a Jewish person? Not in an offensive way, I mean. (Genuine enquiry, as I'm interested in language usage).
It's fine by me! And much less inclined to cause offense than "Yid" which has become offensive in some circles.

In retrospect I should have used "gentile" in place of goy.

Goy derives from Goyim which some people believe means cattle though in fact it is Hebrew for Nations. Colloquially it means "The Rest / Others" to differentiate from us Yids!
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