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swimfeeders
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22-06-2019, 06:58 AM
11

Re: International Waters?

Hi

A simple fact of life.

If Iran had been flying a drone 12 miles from the USA, Trump would have shot it down.

The big point is being missed here.

The USA drone was a stealth drone, supposedly invisible.

The Iranians were sending a message, as was Putin.

The Iranians have the latest Russian Technology, the Russians have the latest Iranian Technology.

The Russians can find Stealth Aircraft, the Iranians can disable USA Defence Systems.

Trump has backed off from retaliation.

That speaks volumes.
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keezoy
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22-06-2019, 08:14 AM
12

Re: International Waters?

Hi

A simple fact of life.

If Iran had been flying a drone 12 miles from the USA, Trump would have shot it down.

The big point is being missed here.

The USA drone was a stealth drone, supposedly invisible.

The Iranians were sending a message, as was Putin.

The Iranians have the latest Russian Technology, the Russians have the latest Iranian Technology.

The Russians can find Stealth Aircraft, the Iranians can disable USA Defence Systems.

Trump has backed off from retaliation.

That speaks volumes.

I appreciate your post Swimfeeders. But with the greatest of respect I am not seeing your point here. Was it you that said you had been shot, stabbed and blown up?..I have been in some very hair raising situations in my career working in the criminal justice system. But I cannot begin to imagine the pain you have experienced. I would imagine a man that has undoubtedly seen the kinds of miseries you have seen in war (I am supposing..or is it police) that you wouldn't mention things other than military technology. Take me outside and kick the crap out of me if I'm wrong but isn't this all about more than that?
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Donkeyman
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22-06-2019, 09:40 AM
13

Re: International Waters?

Originally Posted by The Artful Todger ->
Nowt stopping the Iranians sending a fast motor boat to where wreckage was seen to fall, it would have been obvious from radar records.
Moreover airframes today are made of composites and laminated structures which are given mechanical rigidity by honeycomb stuff. That means lots of it would have floated.

BTW - I'm not setting out to be argumentative with you, I REALLY enjoy discussing things like this with you. The very good points that you raise make me think!
I took no sides in my post Todgy if you noticed?
I merely pointed out that both sides are open to suspicion in
this matter?
As regards the recovery of the wreckage? Yes, all you say is
feasible? But to do it under the eyes of the enemy would in
my opinion be extremely difficult if not impossible?
Also the wreckage displayed looked very much like twisted
metal and components etc, just like we see after a plane
crash? Obviously, this can be interpreted two way also?
The point l tried to make was, l think? Trust nobody when
the stakes are high!

Regards Donkeyman!
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22-06-2019, 09:45 AM
14

Re: International Waters?

Originally Posted by OldGreyFox ->
Why would the Americans be flying a drone over international waters?
Meybe it was not over international waters OGF?

Regards Donoeyman!
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22-06-2019, 09:54 AM
15

Re: International Waters?

I suppose it's a case of who we see as the bullies.

I don't remember any country in the ME initiating a war against the West. The West seem to excel.

US have been at war 222 out of 239 years ! For me the evidence speaks for itself .

List of countries US have tried to force a regime change since WWII

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Donkeyman
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22-06-2019, 09:54 AM
16

Re: International Waters?

Originally Posted by keezoy ->
Yeah well weighing everything up as fairly as I can, I think I'd rather take my chances with the madmen of the USA than the madmen of Iran. The USA cops a lot of flak for the simple reason that, despite what the Chinese or Russians may claim/ say etc, they are still the most powerful single nation on Earth. If it was Equatorial Guinea instead of them, they would cop it. Whoever has the most guns, lawyers and money will always cop the most flak. I've lived there; San Francisco and New Jersey. Sure it's a crazy place but it is AMAZING!.and fun and cool and you can be whatever you want to be if you want it bad enough. You can follow whatever religion you want. And if you're a woman you won't get stoned to death or set on fire if you are unfaithful to your husband. POwer is not just about things military or economic. Where is the Iranian Bob Dylan?...Seen any great Iranian stage shows lately?...Been any Iranian rock bands selling our O2 stadium lately?....Where is the great Iranian jazz, blues, Symphonies?...POwer is cultural as well. I'll take My own country, Britain or the USA any time. Mad?..maybe. BUt at least we live in the 21st century. And btw. We DO have the Chinese navy patrolling off our shores. They are OK. All they want from us (so far) is to plunder our supermarkets of all the baby formula. But when they start building bases on the Barrier Reef or Papua New Guinea.I think we might start to worry.
I echo your sentiments Keezoy! I also am trying to be unbiased
in my opinions and to keep an open mind

Best regards Donkeyman!
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Donkeyman
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22-06-2019, 10:14 AM
17

Re: International Waters?

Originally Posted by Puddle Duck ->
I suppose it's a case of who we see as the bullies.

I don't remember any country in the ME initiating a war against the West. The West seem to excel.

US have been at war 222 out of 239 years ! For me the evidence speaks for itself .

List of countries US have tried to force a regime change since WWII

An impressive list PD!
But l expect US will justify it by calling it a fight for democracy
Although the citizens may well have voted for their leaders?

Regards Donkeyman!
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keezoy
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22-06-2019, 10:41 AM
18

Re: International Waters?

Wow. So the US overthrew Gough Whitlam's labor government in Australia in 1975?..And all this time I thought it was John Kerr and Malcolm Fraser. It must have all been a bad dream. Does this mean that Australia should have told the US to bugger off when they Japanese were bombing the crap out of us in WW2?. When they helped defend Australia in the Battle of the Coral Sea. Should Britain have told the nasty imperialist US to bugger off in Europe when the Nazis were doing their thing?..Should they have said.."Stay away, we'll invade Normandy on our own" We have heard these theories before but I suspect it's exactly what I said before. If in doubt, blame the US. All I can say is people have short memories. I might be biased. I have strong ties with the USA. But I stand by what I say.
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The Artful Todger
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22-06-2019, 10:56 AM
19

Re: International Waters?

Originally Posted by keezoy ->
Yeah well weighing everything up as fairly as I can, I think I'd rather take my chances with the madmen of the USA than the madmen of Iran. The USA cops a lot of flak for the simple reason that, despite what the Chinese or Russians may claim/ say etc, they are still the most powerful single nation on Earth. If it was Equatorial Guinea instead of them, they would cop it. Whoever has the most guns, lawyers and money will always cop the most flak. I've lived there; San Francisco and New Jersey. Sure it's a crazy place but it is AMAZING!.and fun and cool and you can be whatever you want to be if you want it bad enough. You can follow whatever religion you want. And if you're a woman you won't get stoned to death or set on fire if you are unfaithful to your husband. POwer is not just about things military or economic. Where is the Iranian Bob Dylan?...Seen any great Iranian stage shows lately?...Been any Iranian rock bands selling our O2 stadium lately?....Where is the great Iranian jazz, blues, Symphonies?...POwer is cultural as well. I'll take My own country, Britain or the USA any time. Mad?..maybe. BUt at least we live in the 21st century. And btw. We DO have the Chinese navy patrolling off our shores. They are OK. All they want from us (so far) is to plunder our supermarkets of all the baby formula. But when they start building bases on the Barrier Reef or Papua New Guinea.I think we might start to worry.
Ecuador has been bribed by the USA to evict Julian Assange in return of a promise to build a US military base and airfield on the Galapagos isles.

I think that's disgusting twice over.

As an aside when I first visited the USA many years ago and flying over the land the thing that struck me most was how very little the USA has achieved compared with the horrendous environmental damage that has been inflicted on what was a pristine place.
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The Artful Todger
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22-06-2019, 10:58 AM
20

Re: International Waters?

Originally Posted by keezoy ->
Wow. So the US overthrew Gough Whitlam's labor government in Australia in 1975?..And all this time I thought it was John Kerr and Malcolm Fraser. It must have all been a bad dream. Does this mean that Australia should have told the US to bugger off when they Japanese were bombing the crap out of us in WW2?. When they helped defend Australia in the Battle of the Coral Sea. Should Britain have told the nasty imperialist US to bugger off in Europe when the Nazis were doing their thing?..Should they have said.."Stay away, we'll invade Normandy on our own" We have heard these theories before but I suspect it's exactly what I said before. If in doubt, blame the US. All I can say is people have short memories. I might be biased. I have strong ties with the USA. But I stand by what I say.
.

To each their own.
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